Religion is missing something?

[von_neumann]

You simply cannot force people to be active, willing participants in the religion aspect of the game.

Amen!

[Indirik]

But not enough people are willing to do what it takes to make it work.

And for the record, by "do what it takes", I do not mean "spend craploads of hours RPing, and preaching, writing comprehensive theological essays, and creating entire new pantheons and theologies", etc. I mean play their characters as religiously devoted, and willing to have their characters do something that the character doesn't want to do, because their religious authority tells them to do it. People need to be willing to take the religious authority as the highest authority, with the realm as a mere earthly entity devoted to accomplishing it's goals.

And no that doesn't mean that we all have to play theocracies. But why can't King Kepler have a representative of Goodism on his private council to make sure the realm remains faithful to their tenets, and to look out for Goodism's best interests? And why can't  the leaders of Goodism suggest to King Kepler that that treaty he is about to sign with Evilstani is perhaps not the best idea, as the savages of Evilstani still refuse to accept the truth of Goodism, so the treaty should include provisions of the construction of a temple of Goodism in all border regions?

[Indirik]

I am increasingly convinced that what we need is not more new religions, it's fewer old stupid ones.

I've been saying for a long time that we have too many religions in the game.

[Anaris]

That's a very good question. (Assuming I can parse that correctly...) I've often wondered why, if there are so many people here on the forum complaining that no one (other than them) takes religion seriously enough, they don't all get together somewhere and make a religion that they actually take seriously.

I've got a religion that I think would be much easier than most to take seriously (Quintarianism), and a character primed to found it...only trouble is, she's on what appears to be the losingest side of the Atamara war at the moment :-\

[Indirik]

Quintarianism

Quintarianism would probably be a good fit for BattleMaster. It has built-in orders that would be pretty easy for people to fit into. Would be great of there were ways to create subgroups, or sects, inside existing religions. But the four associated orders (there's no associated order for the Bastard, right?) It also has the advantage of being from a popular fantasy series, so you'd probably find quite a few people willing to RP a system they enjoyed reading about.

It also has the advantage of having a built-in competing sect, the Quadrenes, that uses four of the same five gods, but considers the Bastard to be evil.

[Vellos]

I've got a religion

You and everyone else.

We need more players who will join an old religion and invest in it, and fewer who feel that, to play the religion game, they need to found a religion.

[Anaris]

You and everyone else.

We need more players who will join an old religion and invest in it, and fewer who feel that, to play the religion game, they need to found a religion.

Oh, I certainly agree, as you can see from my earlier post.

The problem is, we need that as well as more solid religions that people can get behind.

I have considered the pluses and minuses, and judged that overall, it is better to try to found Quintarianism, because I believe that it will be the kind of religion people can feel is more fulfilling and rewarding than your average state religion.  Assuming, of course, that it manages to get off the ground.

[Alasteir]

I must say, I did not read the entire topic, so, if I'm telling things other told, please, forgive me.

To me, things that we had on the real religions could be implemented.

First of all, I do believe we have so many religions, and, more, the major of them stupid, based on things out of BM or otherwise, without ways to become something that could matter.

But, for me, this just occured as a consequence of the religion system.

Of course that, as a first thing, you should be able to create a religion. This is the first step and, different of the rel world, you can't start a religion by adding followers to you until you become great enough to be recognized as a religion. On BM, the simple click is something that must be done. Unfortunelly, it brings some troubles.

As the first and most important, anyone can create a religion, by this way (of course, you must be a noble and a lord as requeriments);

The second, as anyone, respected the requiriments can creat a religion, it went on a stupid spree, and most players see it as something you just do not need to play.

To correct this, I believe that this sould be done:

1) Prohibition for create new religions - for a while;

2) Clean up of the religions - religions based on other games being prohibited.

3) Enforced the politics to have religions based on BM and SM things;

4) Limitation at the fantasy of religions: an amorfic god wich lives on the space is acceptable; unknown gods dressed to kill in plate armors, wielding explosive javelins is something over the limit;

5) Put priest as a subclass of the game: much of the historical preachers was warriors and members of the govern;

6) Rise of the requiriments to become a priest;

7) Adaptation of the benefits of being a priest;

8) Change of the rules of the religions: the option to turn it really "evil", "good" ou dicotomized (as the most politheistics religions);

9) Religiousity benefits: random things that could improve the memebership of religions, as the miracles to revive while declared dead (as  the thing with newbies), a vision that improve your skill for an action, heavenly help to kill rogue, etc, etc. People worship gods because they do believe they will have some benefit, some help, a thousand virgins to !@#$ in heaven, etc. While characters do not know about their destiny and the gods, players are discouraged to adopt religions, because they see it as a place to put their golds without a benefit, no one.

9) Non limitation for the religions: Despite the limitations we have on BM about emigration, religiousity should be an exception. With a religion to spread at the globe you can start to enforce yours, not search for a new one when you change of continent. The limitation for priests to emigrate should be taken as well.

10) Peasants claimming to their lord become a follower of their religion start to be a thing to matter. Today, it is just a phrase at the notifications, but, when production stops as the people is celebrating a religious hollyday, things should go bad as the lord will ask for workers.

11) Characters be able to become atheistic - today, you just can't be it. If you do not follow an official religion, you are called pagan (for who I don't know), and a follower of the local Folklore. This is wrong. If you think that, even without wanting, your character already have a religion, you will not matter to search a new one.

12) Possibility to merge and tear a religion - Something I really want to see, and that will encourage people to make the roleplay of the religions is the possibility to merge and tear secede. By the choice of the elder members of two Religions, they could make a concilium, to treat the terms to merge their religions as something unique. This was a demeanor of some religions, and a strategy adopted even by Alexander, the great. The catholics, too, are well known to adopt festivals and holy days from "pagans" religions and transmute them on their own parties.
Plus, an elder member should have the option to go out and create an herectic version of the religion he used to follow, but, after sometime, become something he just do not entirely believe.

13) A common class to religious characters - to me, this is something tha could be added: a common preacher.

14) Implement of stupid cool things: a noble could have his funeral made at the temple of his former land or were his family lives. Added by the option of "world wide religions", a family could adopt one as their own, and baptize the new characters there. Do not forget that, for the majority of the world, follow a religion is follow the steps of our fathers and grandfathers.

15) Possibility to hire a crew - a preacher could have the option to hire some men, to his protection, but, as the hero, from the peasants of a place. Perhaps he travels with a party of followers, wich protect him from attacks of believers of the evil religions; perhaps, he travels with his women and men slaves, to make public sex with the people on orgistic celebrations; perhaps, he takes some believers to do the nasty game of miracles, as some guys do tricks with tourists. For me, being unable to take somebody is boring. This will surely grow the price of good travels, but, as a preacher, some people really do not spend any gold.

Well, I believe that this could help :D

[Vellos]

2) Clean up of the religions - religions based on other games being prohibited.

Oh, you mean like the fifty religions with Tyr and Zisa?

Yup. Wipe'em. Ticks me off every time I see it.

[Chaotrance13]

Oh, you mean like the fifty religions with Tyr and Zisa?

Yup. Wipe'em. Ticks me off every time I see it.

Damn. There goes my idea of founding a religion (not now, but way in the future) based upon Khorne and demon worship. Blood for the Blood God and all that jazz.

[JPierreD]

Oh, you mean like the fifty religions with Tyr and Zisa?

Yup. Wipe'em. Ticks me off every time I see it.

Or the many Nordic Mythology clone religions, with Odin, Thor and all the merry bunch.

[Anaris]

Oh, you mean like the fifty religions with Tyr and Zisa?

Yup. Wipe'em. Ticks me off every time I see it.

Well, they may not be totally original, but how are they based on other games?

[Indirik]

Damn. There goes my idea of founding a religion (not now, but way in the future) based upon Khorne and demon worship. Blood for the Blood God and all that jazz.

Armok is not happy that you got his name wrong.

[Alasteir]

The best point of this forum is people always forget to read and interpretate all. I said games. Sirion has a religion based on Warcraft.

[egamma]

The best point of this forum is people always forget to read and interpretate all. I said games. Sirion has a religion based on Warcraft.

Is the one based on MechWarrior still around? Probably not...