Temporary Lordships

[egamma]

Are you assuming that there are no appointments to the regions in the duchy?  If so, does anyone have experience with the resulting penalties?  Because we're going to be stretched thin.

Which reminds me... SOLARIA: NOW HIRING.

No, I see that some of the regions have appointments. But you could make them temporary, for the purposes of stabilizing the regions and aligning them to a new duchy.

And there are no penalties, other than 50% tax and inability to perform food functions.

[Indirik]

No, I see that some of the regions have appointments. But you could make them temporary, for the purposes of stabilizing the regions and aligning them to a new duchy.

Except that "temporary" or "placeholder" positions are pretty much against the rules...

[egamma]

Except that "temporary" or "placeholder" positions are pretty much against the rules...

The lords do not have to step down. But if they decide that they can get twice as much income as a knight of Poratown, than as lord of South Divide, then you can hardly blame them for deciding that the lordship isn't worth a 50% pay cut.

[Indirik]

Yeah, and when *every* lord you appoint sticks around for a week, realigns the region to the right duchy, and steps down, don't you think that's a bit suspicious?

Instead of trying to find loopholes all the time, you could try playing inside the rules.

[Vellos]

Yeah, and when *every* lord you appoint sticks around for a week, realigns the region to the right duchy, and steps down, don't you think that's a bit suspicious?

I would. But I wouldn't find it suspicious if over several months a natural attrition and desire for gold pulls most of them back to the heartland regions.

[Indirik]

That only works if you don't come to the forum first and tell everyone you're going to have temporary place holder lordships for all those regions.

[Penchant]

That only works if you don't come to the forum first and tell everyone you're going to have temporary place holder lordships for all those regions.

Maybe Tom is against this but in my mind I don't see this as against the rules because they aren't place holders really, they are expected to do their job as a lord and get the region running well not just sit there and ignore the job  like a placeholder. Them stepping down is unenforcable by the realm so it will likely take awhile.

[Indirik]

A lordship isn't a "job". There is a clear rule, as stated on the wiki, about temporary positions. It simply is not allowed. You appoint the person you want to have the position, period.

If you wouldn't be happy with that person having the position for the next sixth months, don't appoint them. If you wouldn't be happy having that position for the next six months, don't take it. Yes, people can change their minds. But if you go into it thinking "I will only have it for a week, then I'm going back where I was", that's not changing ykour mind, is it?

With all the talk in other threads about enforcing the hierarchy, and making it mean something, it's really sad to see stuff like this. This is the exact opposite of the spirit of the game.

It's also OT for this thread...

[Vellos]

That only works if you don't come to the forum first and tell everyone you're going to have temporary place holder lordships for all those regions.

True.

Although: why would they force someone to give up a lordship? Presumably it would be acceptable for them to appoint people, then just not frown on stepping down from lordships in borderlands. Probably some people would take the lower income just for the sake of the title, while others would do a stint there for some name recognition and prestige, then return.

From a Magistrate's perspective, it'd be hard to distinguish between a "temporary position" and a person who got frustrated with extremely low incomes on an individual basis; if lots of lords did it, we might be able to tell: but if maybe 2 did it? I don't know how we'd know besides hoping the people confessed.

[Solari]

Let's create a new topic for the temporary lordship question, please. 

[egamma]

That only works if you don't come to the forum first and tell everyone you're going to have temporary place holder lordships for all those regions.

I don't even have a character in Solaria. I'm just thinking aloud about how to work around a game deficiency--namely, that regions cannot be re-sized.

You appoint the person you want to have the position, period. If you wouldn't be happy with that person having the position for the next sixth months, don't appoint them.

I am not suggesting that Solaria should force, or expect, the lords to step down.

If you wouldn't be happy having that position for the next six months, don't take it.

And what if someone appoints you against your will? If you forget to check the check-box refusing lordship, then you could very well end up with one, especially if your liege is also the duke in control of the lordless region--kick out of estate, then appoint to Lordship. Maybe they want your tax gold; maybe they want the estate for someone they like better; maybe you're a pain in the rear and they want to get rid of you in a way that seems to others like a promotion.

Just in case you missed it, I'll say it again: I do not have a character in Solaria. I'm just speaking possibilities.

[Indirik]

Those are all possible scenarios. But none of them are what you described in your original post. Which makes them all irrelevant.

I'm not looking for legitimate ways in which someone could hold a lordship for a short period of time. Of course it can happen, under the right circumstances. What I'm saying, and what is clearly defined, is that temporary or placeholder positions are not allowed.

For the purposes of discussing it here, it also makes no difference whether you have a character in the realm or not.

[Vellos]

But what we're saying, Indirik, is that the Magistrates might be hard pressed to determine if they are "temporary lordships" or just legitimately short tenures. Not impossible, but certainly not an easy, clear-cut thing, short of somebody confessing.

[Indirik]

Yes, I agree that it would be difficult to tell, in many cases. Unless there was a paper trail discussing it. And if it is truly a temporary appointment, there most likely will be one.

Nevertheless, the difficulty of proving it in a Magistrates case does not mean that it is something that should be advocated on the forums.

[egamma]

Okay, the word temporary is bad. I'll avoid it. Can we please discuss this without accusing me of "trying to find loopholes all the time"? Or at least send me a PM where I've done that. I haven't been the subject of any Titan investigations or Magistrate cases, at least to my knowledge.

Back on topic:
What if the lord of the Alley of Swords steps down in order to be appointed duke/margrave of Balance Retreat? It's a step up in prestige, and certainly a move that almost any real noble would make. How else do you handle fact that the Alley of Swords needed to be taken in order to TO Balance Retreat?