Duke give away region

[egamma]

Title: Grant Dukes the ability to give away a region to a neighboring duchy

Summary: Dukes should be able to switch the alliance of empty regions to that of a neighboring duchy

Details: This would be similar to the current ability of rulers to give away a region to a neighboring realm, but would instead work between two duchies in the same realm. (Or, maybe ANY neighboring duchy?) This should only be possible for regions without a lord (and possibly without knights?)

Benefits: This would enable a duke to curry favor with another duke, improve the income of an impoverished duchy, etc. Also removes the need for someone to be appointed for the express purpose of assigning a region to a different duchy, if it is desirable to leave the region with no lord or knights.

Possible Exploits: Unknown, I will edit request as those are brought up.

[LilWolf]

How can the duke give away land that isn't his? The king owns all the land, doesn't he?

Also, why would we want to encourage leaving a region without a lord/knights?

[JPierreD]

How can the duke give away land that isn't his? The king owns all the land, doesn't he?

Also, why would we want to encourage leaving a region without a lord/knights?

Giving the region to a duchy of a different realm would be treason, but not to a duchy of the same one. Sounds like a good request to me.

[T Strike]

I guess it would be the same as switching allegiance, however it would Dukes even more power than they already have being able to control what region is aligned to what Duchy is some pretty powerful stuff, eh?

[JPierreD]

I guess it would be the same as switching allegiance, however it would Dukes even more power than they already have being able to control what region is aligned to what Duchy is some pretty powerful stuff, eh?

Only with Lordless regions.

[LilWolf]

Giving the region to a duchy of a different realm would be treason, but not to a duchy of the same one. Sounds like a good request to me.

I still don't see why. If you want a region to be in another duchy then the region lord should make that decision. If you don't have a region lord for the region then you deserve to be inconvenienced. It should never be desirable to leave a region without a region lord. Any problems a lordless region poses are well deserved.

[JPierreD]

I still don't see why. If you want a region to be in another duchy then the region lord should make that decision.

Does it matter why Duke A might want to give the region to Duke B? As long as Duke B wants it, what is the problem?

If you don't have a region lord for the region then you deserve to be inconvenienced.

Inconvenienced how?

It should never be desirable to leave a region without a region lord. Any problems a lordless region poses are well deserved.

I don't see how changing the duchy of a region will solve the lack of knights problem of a realm, or diminish the problems the lordless state gives.

[T Strike]

I don't see how changing the duchy of a region will solve the lack of knights problem of a realm, or diminish the problems the lordless state gives.

Simple, it doesn't, knights don't just randomly appear out of nowhere at the push of a button that assigns you to some random duchy, or do they?

[Charles]

Dukes giving a region away only makes sense if duchy borders are controlled by rulers.  But even then, why would a duke want to decrease his/her power?

[T Strike]

Yeah, I want all Dukes to die in power!!!

Reason why: To heal my shame for not being a Duke

[Indirik]

But even then, why would a duke want to decrease his/her power?

Bribe?
Settle a dispute?

Although, this would make more sense if we had duchy warfare. To which I am 100% opposed.

[egamma]

You can think of it as taking the "resize estate" option (and kick knight, and delete estate) that a lord has, and moving it up to the duchy level. Or, you can think of it as moving the ruler's "give away region" option down a level.

It's kinda strange that only Dukes can't manipulate objects a level beneath them, when you think about it.

[megs]

I still don't see why. If you want a region to be in another duchy then the region lord should make that decision. If you don't have a region lord for the region then you deserve to be inconvenienced. It should never be desirable to leave a region without a region lord. Any problems a lordless region poses are well deserved.

A twist you could try with this scenario, if you want to penalise un-ruled regions is to have them become "Imperial", or something similar after a few days.
This could be a hidden Duchy under the ruler, and only he could then assign a lord.
If you want to go further, you could stop or decrease the income going out of the region to higher levels.

Another twist would be to have the .state holder with the longer stay in the region assigned as region lord by popular demand after a few days.

Both these scenarios maintain that only the region lord can change the region allegiance to another Duchy.

In general though, I believe that if a Duke can change the duchy alignment of his regions, he should be able to so for ALL, and not only for these without Lords. He either has this power, or he doesn't.

[fodder]

an empty region in a duchy is effectively under a duke's direct rule.. so under that line of thinking, he can dump it on someone else.

he gets the taxes even if he can't do jack like courts/building/food there... actually food would be his biggest issue (most likely there'll be a mountain rotting away and he can't touch it. which is perfectly ok, if he wants to run empty regions)

if there's a lord there, then the lord gets to decide, not the duke. by extension, a ruler shouldn't be able to shift a region to another realm. not his to shift.

[megs]

he gets the taxes even if he can't do jack like courts/building/food there... actually food would be his biggest issue (most likely there'll be a mountain rotting away and he can't touch it. which is perfectly ok, if he wants to run empty regions)

Regarding taxes, I disagree, because the new system is a bottom up approach.
If the knights have no-one to give the taxes to, they would keep them for themselves. If any made it up the chain, it would be a fraction of what would make it actually, since the chain is broken and there is no control.