Ambush

[Zakilevo]

I actually posted this on the flanking bonus page but I felt it was completely unrelated to the topic so I am posting it here.

Oh well. Improving AI sounds too much to ask for. Then what about instead of adding flanking we add an ambush feature? Only allow it to be used as a defensive tactic - meaning you can only use it in your own regions.

Once players press the ambush button, their units will become invisible from scouts and region status pages. Also, depending on the region type, the chance of being discovered should change as well. On rural+badland regions, scouts can detect them 40-50% of the time - failed attempts leading to the loss of scouts - maybe not all the time but it can lead to scouts returning with the same information as the region status page. In mountain+forest regions, make the chance of detection much slimmer, something like between 10-25%.

Once ambushing units enter the battle, make the ambushing units hit 1.5-2 times harder and make enemies suffer from significant morale loss while giving them 10-20% withdrawal rate. Or instead of hitting harder, give the ambushing force higher chance to wound nobles?

But if they are detected before being ambushed, make them fight like a normal battle - without the ambushing group knowing they are detected.

To balance things out, maybe limiting how many units can hide at once wouldn't be too bad.

To add more, disabling this option for fortified regions must be added.

[Tom]

Way too overpowered.

First, the discovery chance needs to depend on unit size - much more difficult to hide 100 men than to hide 10. Also, cavalry and units with siege engines should be harder to hide.

Second, I don't think a combat advantage fits. Medieval battles weren't fought that way, they were usually set up for hours before fighting ever started. Plus, having more enemies than you thought you would will usually be enough penalty already. The only effect I see is a moral penalty, and then only if the change is significant (i.e. you face twice as much enemies as you thought you would).

[Zakilevo]

Way too overpowered.

First, the discovery chance needs to depend on unit size - much more difficult to hide 100 men than to hide 10. Also, cavalry and units with siege engines should be harder to hide.

Second, I don't think a combat advantage fits. Medieval battles weren't fought that way, they were usually set up for hours before fighting ever started. Plus, having more enemies than you thought you would will usually be enough penalty already. The only effect I see is a moral penalty, and then only if the change is significant (i.e. you face twice as much enemies as you thought you would).

They never ambushed?

[Gustav Kuriga]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ane

They actually did use ambushes, to great effect.

[vonGenf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ane

They actually did use ambushes, to great effect.

This example is of a commoner "rebel" army successfully ambushing a noblemen-led army. Another example is the Battle of Morgarten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Morgarten).

Concerning the original proposal, I agree it is overpowered. I think however that the "Modify Appearance" option, which does work along those lines (units hit harder than the scouts says) may be slightly underpowered for human troops.

[Tom]

Concerning the original proposal, I agree it is overpowered. I think however that the "Modify Appearance" option, which does work along those lines (units hit harder than the scouts says) may be slightly underpowered for human troops.

You are probably right. It shows by the feature not being used much. I will power it up a little.

[Perth]

Where is the "Modify Appearance" feature located? I actually have been looking for it the past few days and couldn't seem to find it. I thought maybe it had been removed.

[Gustav Kuriga]

This example is of a commoner "rebel" army successfully ambushing a noblemen-led army. Another example is the Battle of Morgarten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Morgarten).

Concerning the original proposal, I agree it is overpowered. I think however that the "Modify Appearance" option, which does work along those lines (units hit harder than the scouts says) may be slightly underpowered for human troops.

They were led by nobles, if you bothered to actually read the article...

[egamma]

Where is the "Modify Appearance" feature located? I actually have been looking for it the past few days and couldn't seem to find it. I thought maybe it had been removed.

You need to be in a region with a blacksmith, and it should appear on the Orders page.

[Perth]

You need to be in a region with a blacksmith, and it should appear on the Orders page.

Ah, the smithy part is what I was missing.

[vonGenf]

They were led by nobles, if you bothered to actually read the article...

I did.

The inhabitants of Drenthe were unhappy about their rights and taxation of the Bishop of Utrecht. The local lords of the Drenthe city of Coevorden, though nominally under the authority of the Bishop, began to oppose him.

In BM terms, this is a peasant uprising in a city due to high taxes.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Key words in there. "Local lords of the Drenthe city of Coevorden."

[vonGenf]

From the middle of the 11th century the Bishops of Utrecht were given the lands of Groningen, Overijssel and Drenthe as a fief by the Holy Roman Emperor. The inhabitants of Drenthe were unhappy about their rights and taxation of the Bishop of Utrecht. The local lords of the Drenthe city of Coevorden, though nominally under the authority of the Bishop, began to oppose him.

The Lord of the Drenth city of Coeverden was Otto II von Lippe, Bishop of Utrecht, and the city was given to him by the Holy Roman Emperor.

Rudolf II van Coeverden was a NPC, as were the other local Lords of Utrecht.

That seems pretty clear to me from the article... I wonder how you read it otherwise? Nowhere does it say that Rudolf was count of Coeverden.

I guess, in BM terms, you should count Otto as Duke of Drenthe, but still there is no mention of Rudolf as anything but a local leader of rebels.

[Gustav Kuriga]

You do realize that knights in BM would be the equivalent of local lords, right? And how he's an NPC in your book I'll never know.

[pcw27]

If I recall correctly the ambush function that never got implemented was supposed to make your unit appear behind the enemy in a battle.

I think the camouflage idea alone could allow you to simulate an ambush. With a unit hidden you can catch incoming forces by surprise. This could be done in conjunction with digging in (at a serious penalty to how well hidden you are). There'd be no need for a combat advantage instead it will be up to the player to make sure he's on the right setting. If you ambush a superior force you'd better set your unit for a low casualty withdrawal.