Ambush

[Zakilevo]

After reading some posts I would like to suggest two things over my original post.

Instead of giving bonuses, maybe changing positions might be better.

When you get ambushed, randomly shuffle the settings of the army getting ambushed? Maybe you will get cavalries in the front instead of having them in rear? + But let nobles with high leadership to keep their settings?

or

Make the ambushing army fight randomly picked TLs? But limit it so that you only fight the same number of TLs?

EX) If you ambush with 10 TLs, you face 10 TLs randomly selected from your enemy's army?

[Ketchum]

Make the ambushing army fight randomly picked TLs? But limit it so that you only fight the same number of TLs?

EX) If you ambush with 10 TLs, you face 10 TLs randomly selected from your enemy's army?

+1 to this part. I agree we should be able to ambush enemy and they will most likely caught with their pants down. Perhaps we can borrow some coding or concept from how infiltrator attack on noble who is surprised.

[Charles]

If there was a way for troops to ambush in that way, attacking an equal number of enemy units and ignoring everyone else, that could really hurt the whole blob problem.  I would suggest that the ambushed troops should start off in the wrong settings.  Unless the TL has high leadership, or perhaps it should be based on the captain.

[Zakilevo]

If there was a way for troops to ambush in that way, attacking an equal number of enemy units and ignoring everyone else, that could really hurt the whole blob problem.  I would suggest that the ambushed troops should start off in the wrong settings.  Unless the TL has high leadership, or perhaps it should be based on the captain.

Yes, leadership should matter. People with higher leadership than the ambushing force should either be excluded or not affected by the ambush.

[Velax]

The problem is having one side start off in the wrong settings is basically an automatic win for the other side, unless the numbers are hugely skewed. I'm sure we've all fought battles where one army with the wrong setting has turned what should have been a win into a bad loss.

[Zakilevo]

There should be some way to counter the ambush. Like I said before, giving scouts a certain percentage to discover an ambush might be a good idea.

[Charles]

I see how mixing up someone's settings would cause them to lose the battle, I think that was the whole purpose of an ambush.  Catch them off guard.  No time to set up lines.  Why is this a problem?  Have we not been looking for something that allows a realm with very few troops to gain an upper hand?
One thing that I would highly suggest for ambushes, the attackers gain no Honour or Prestige in the battle, where as the defenders gain more than usual for surviving it (if they do).

[Zakilevo]

I see how mixing up someone's settings would cause them to lose the battle, I think that was the whole purpose of an ambush.  Catch them off guard.  No time to set up lines.  Why is this a problem?  Have we not been looking for something that allows a realm with very few troops to gain an upper hand?
One thing that I would highly suggest for ambushes, the attackers gain no Honour or Prestige in the battle, where as the defenders gain more than usual for surviving it (if they do).

I fully agree. It is not honourable at all. If possible, you should try to hide your name as well.

To summarize everything,

1) Ambushers should be hidden from scout reports until they are revealed by scouts - with a certain chances.

2) Only a certain number of TLs can set up an ambush in the same region.

3) Scouts can reveal them without letting ambushers knowing. If the ambushing party doesn't leave the region until next turn, they will engage in a normal battle with lowered morale.

4) If ambushed, the defending force - randomly selected, and the number is decided by the number of the ambushing force - will fight in random settings with lowered morale, however, TLs with high enough leadership skill can avoid this.

5) The ambushing party gains no honour or prestige.

6) Names will be randomly revealed.

[Penchant]

Why is this a problem?  Have we not been looking for something that allows a realm with very few troops to gain an upper hand?

Think about this two realms, named A and B, are about to battle at region C. Realm A does an ambush and conceals 3k CS of their 13k CS total at C, and B has 9k CS. Now the smaller army that thought they would have a chance at winning or just a minor loss, got a huge loss. So even though it can help a realm with less troops it also helps realms with a more troops too so you can't say this a good feature just because it gives less troops the upper hand, it gives either side the chance a bonus. One issue with this is, other than no honor or prestige, there is no reason not to always put troops to ambush because it only helps the side that does it because nothing is bad about doing this in battle. So this seems like an overpowered feature.

[Zakilevo]

Think about this two realms, named A and B, are about to battle at region C. Realm A does an ambush and conceals 3k CS of their 13k CS total at C, and B has 9k CS. Now the smaller army that thought they would have a chance at winning or just a minor loss, got a huge loss. So even though it can help a realm with less troops it also helps realms with a more troops too so you can't say this a good feature just because it gives less troops the upper hand, it gives either side the chance a bonus. One issue with this is, other than no honor or prestige, there is no reason not to always put troops to ambush because it only helps the side that does it because nothing is bad about doing this in battle. So this seems like an overpowered feature.

How about giving the defenders a choice to either avoid the ambushing force or fight the ambushing force first once they discover the ambush? Give this choice to marshals maybe?

If the marshal of the defenders choose to fight the ambushing force, let his entire army face the ambushing force. If the marshal choose to avoid the ambushing army, let his army face his enemy directly. But the enemy army which set the ambush will have to fight without the army they have assigned for the ambush.

Or we can simply make people be only able to set ambushes in certain region types like mountains and forests.

[Velax]

I see how mixing up someone's settings would cause them to lose the battle, I think that was the whole purpose of an ambush.  Catch them off guard.  No time to set up lines.  Why is this a problem?  Have we not been looking for something that allows a realm with very few troops to gain an upper hand?
One thing that I would highly suggest for ambushes, the attackers gain no Honour or Prestige in the battle, where as the defenders gain more than usual for surviving it (if they do).

Because there's a difference between giving someone an advantage and giving someone an automatic win.

[Penchant]

Because there's a difference between giving someone an advantage and giving someone an automatic win.

+1


IMO, just having your forces invisible is quite the advantage.

[Tom]

IMO, just having your forces invisible is quite the advantage.

And a lot easier to code. Simple is the new black.

[Zakilevo]

And a lot easier to code. Simple is the new black.

Keep forgetting about coding :o. Now the problem is how much CS to allow I think. Let's just simply let marshals hide 25% of their men?

[Tom]

It should go by men, not CS. 100 peasants (CS 600) are more difficult to hide than 50 mercenaries (CS 800).