Author Topic: Paisly gets steamrolled  (Read 19509 times)

vonGenf

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #30: July 25, 2012, 08:41:37 AM »
You should initiate a takeover only if you intend to take over the region, not for its side effects.  Yes, it's not easily enforcible and people will do it anyway, but that's the idea behind "make game actions as your in game character interprets it", rather than purely for the game mechanics reasons.

That's like saying you should initiate a battle only if you intend to entirely wipe out the other realm. You have just described all peace treaties as abuse of game mechanics.

They initiated a takeover to show they can. It's a perfectly valid action.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Foundation

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #31: July 25, 2012, 03:13:59 PM »
Yes, do you start a war and say "we are still friends, I just wanted one region back."  Then that is plainly wrong.
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DamnTaffer

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #32: July 25, 2012, 04:13:40 PM »
Yes, do you start a war and say "we are still friends, I just wanted one region back."  Then that is plainly wrong.

Please ...explain how this isn't nonsense

Geronus

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #33: July 25, 2012, 04:23:48 PM »
Then how would you suggest an occupation is enacted? The only game way I know of would be to begin a brutal take over then not complete.

Since similar things happen in both an occupation and a take over the difference being occupations are temporary.

Loot the place into the ground? A true "occupation" would not only see you launch the TO, but see it through and then occupy the the city on a long term or permanent basis. If all you want to do is wreck up the place and send a message, looting will more than suffice. For RP purposes, simply stationing your army there would be be enough.

I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing per se, but keep in mind that you are doing exactly what the game mechanics say you are doing. Mechanics trump RP. That means that, right now, you are brutally suppressing the populace and forcing Aurvandilian rule on Paisly, not temporarily occupying the place.

vonGenf

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #34: July 25, 2012, 04:26:48 PM »
I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing per se, but keep in mind that you are doing exactly what the game mechanics say you are doing. Mechanics trump RP. That means that, right now, you are brutally suppressing the populace and forcing Aurvandilian rule on Paisly, not temporarily occupying the place.

They are temporarily brutally suppressing the populace and forcing Aurvandilian rule on Paisly.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Geronus

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #35: July 25, 2012, 04:31:37 PM »
They are temporarily brutally suppressing the populace and forcing Aurvandilian rule on Paisly.

Ha, fair enough. They are subjecting Paisly to their rule though.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 06:21:41 PM by Geronus »

Foundation

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #36: July 25, 2012, 05:27:33 PM »
Huh?  Do you want me to explain why it's wrong to start a war and still claim to be friends?
The above is accurate 25% of the time, truthful 50% of the time, and facetious 100% of the time.

Penchant

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #37: July 25, 2012, 08:07:50 PM »
They are temporarily brutally suppressing the populace and forcing Aurvandilian rule on Paisly.
They aren't being brutal about anything with their TO actions, though they aren't quite as nice to the fortifications.
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Vellos

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #38: July 26, 2012, 12:02:31 AM »
What Aurvandil is doing has been standard practice in BM for as long as I can remember. It's perfectly fair game to start TOs for purely tactical or symbolic reasons, and regular practice; always has been.
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BardicNerd

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #39: July 26, 2012, 05:03:25 AM »
Huh?  Do you want me to explain why it's wrong to start a war and still claim to be friends?
I don't really see anything wrong with that . . . but it'd take a pretty big sucker to believe it.

But hey, if you can convince them. . . .


Note: In case it is not clear, I think it is obvious that if you are at war with someone, you aren't their friend, basically by definition.  But when have the facts stopped people from claiming otherwise?

DamnTaffer

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #40: July 26, 2012, 06:37:10 AM »
Huh?  Do you want me to explain why it's wrong to start a war and still claim to be friends?

Ever had a fight with a freind before?

Penchant

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #41: July 26, 2012, 07:01:25 AM »
They didn't really have a chance at taking over Paisly even though everyone was worrying. The region was on the brink of starvation when Aurvandil arrived and if they stayed we could just let Paisly starve to weaken Aurvandil's army. And to those who say Aurvandil would have still been able to take Paisly before the moot could fight them, they are completely wrong considering it would have taken Aurvandil quite a while to take the region since they were only at 10%.
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Foundation

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #42: July 26, 2012, 07:53:04 AM »
I believe you should mean what the game mechanics say.

When you are at war, you mean to battle as enemies.
When you conduct takeovers, you mean to take over a region under your own flag.
When you appoint a lord, you mean to grant the lord the land under oath.

This is what I believe to be true and a result of "Game mechanics trump RP".  Whether it is enforcible or even should be strictly enforced is beside my point.
The above is accurate 25% of the time, truthful 50% of the time, and facetious 100% of the time.

OFaolain

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #43: July 26, 2012, 08:12:17 AM »
Ever had a fight with a freind before?

Yeah, but I didn't trash his house and commandeer a wing of it for myself.
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DamnTaffer

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Re: Paisly gets steamrolled
« Reply #44: July 26, 2012, 10:02:13 AM »
I believe you should mean what the game mechanics say.

When you are at war, you mean to battle as enemies.
When you conduct takeovers, you mean to take over a region under your own flag.
When you appoint a lord, you mean to grant the lord the land under oath.

This is what I believe to be true and a result of "Game mechanics trump RP".  Whether it is enforcible or even should be strictly enforced is beside my point.

The problem with game mechanics trumping RP is that game mechanics are too limiting. There is no function to install an interim lord, establish a line of succession, commit an occupation, depose lords, effectively punish nobles, run an empire the way the lurias want to roleplay themselves, family estates are indestructable, torturing nobles doesn't injure them (and its somehow powergaming to rp that they should be), advys whom leave there home nations become outlaws where as migrant peasants do not, assassinations don't kill, the combat AI is poor and so forth but all this is to be EXPECTED from a RP based game because its not viable for Tom to code for every action a noble would want to take so as a RPing character you should use the most mechanically accurate option available to you to ascertain the desired roleplay results otherwise your just working the system and not your character.

Think of it this way when a lawman in 12 century England wants to arrest someone do they:

A) Arrest them
B) Request the realms judge ban them, then after giving them 3 days to hide or flee the country attempt to arrest them

Once they have arrested there victim and they've been decided guilty do they:

A) Punish them by the relevant officials choice of execution, exile, jail time, removal of limb, witch hunt where the defendants estate, belongings, staff and family can all be purged or anything else the judge thinks of
B) Nothing but fine or ban them

The battlemaster answers are both B, where as real life and accurate roleplay as would be expected in an SMA atmosphere is most certainly A, where as you might play by the mechanics I'd like my characters life to make actual sense. IF you roleplayed burning my family home to the ground, I'd most certainly not complain, even though the mechanics are not available, I would also not complain if you roleplayed torturing my character and leaving him mutilated.

Yeah, but I didn't trash his house and commandeer a wing of it for myself.

That metaphor is wrong, its more like holding him in a painful armlock and giving him oportunity to surrender