Treaty friction is boring

[Indirik]

Well, I can definitely say that was not the intent. Treaty friction was supposed to prevent eternal alliances and the resultant diplomatic stagnation. But it seems as if the current mechanics are turning out to be more burdensome than useful. People don't seem to want to deal with treaties, and the work of maintaining/signing them.

And to be fair, I can see the point. Astrum currently has several that are on the verge of imploding. The people that we had to create them are too busy to go back to diplomat and fix them. And Morek's diplos are busy doing other stuff to deal with them either. And should treaties really up and disappear in the middle of a war like that?

The treaty system is in preview status right now to help us work out some of this, and get feedback from players. And it definitely looks, to me anyway, that it needs some rebalancing.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Realm gets passive lower rate of friction increase for each diplomat in realm. Ambassadors have greater effect. Still need to decrease/manually increase actively, but maybe once every couple of weeks or month rather than daily.

[vonGenf]

Make the action to decrease friction more complicated: for example, make two diplomats actually meet, or make it cost lots of gold. But, when you do it, you should be able to reset treaty friction to zero, or a low value, maybe like between 0 and 25% depending on skill, within one turn. Then you can go on and do other things.

[De-Legro]

Make the action to decrease friction more complicated: for example, make two diplomats actually meet, or make it cost lots of gold. But, when you do it, you should be able to reset treaty friction to zero, or a low value, maybe like between 0 and 25% depending on skill, within one turn. Then you can go on and do other things.

It does cost gold when you perform the action out side of your realm as I understand it. I think the idea is that if you travel to the other realm mentioned in the treaty, the effect of your actions are greater, though I'm not 100% sure on that. Making Diplos need to travel to meet each other might make what is already quiet a boring task, well even more boring.

[vonGenf]

My point is that I would prefer to spend 200 gold in one shot every six months rather than 5 gold a day every day.

Travelling is not boring! Sitting in your capital clicking buttons is boring. But, I see how it could cause problems.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Traveling to do something totally unexciting is boring...as the description implies. Ever notice how rare legit traders are?

I think some people would be happier with essentially autopilot treaty maintenance. Like the lord game, maybe to an extent, but you still need to do something. Maybe there just isn't enough material incentive for players to put up with the boring task.

[De-Legro]

My point is that I would prefer to spend 200 gold in one shot every six months rather than 5 gold a day every day.

Travelling is not boring! Sitting in your capital clicking buttons is boring. But, I see how it could cause problems.

Treaty maintenance inside your own realm is free is it not?

[Peri]

Realm gets passive lower rate of friction increase for each diplomat in realm. Ambassadors have greater effect. Still need to decrease/manually increase actively, but maybe once every couple of weeks or month rather than daily.

I agree. Making treaty maintenance an occasional task and not something that fills diplomats schedule to the point of not leaving them much else to do could really help.

[Indirik]

Not sure that's such a great idea. It greatly benefits larger realms, as they are more likely to be able to have more ambassadors. So even if they do nothing, the mere fact that they exist will help them, while smaller realms will be struggling to find someone just to be an ambassador.

[Peri]

Not sure that's such a great idea. It greatly benefits larger realms, as they are more likely to be able to have more ambassadors. So even if they do nothing, the mere fact that they exist will help them, while smaller realms will be struggling to find someone just to be an ambassador.

Uhm I quoted the entire message while I was just referring to making maintenance something necessary only seldom and not often. How to do it is another matter.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Don't stack the bonuses? Who knows. The point is I'm getting the feeling that most people just want an autopilot system more or less.

[Indirik]

Uhm I quoted the entire message while I was just referring to making maintenance something necessary only seldom and not often. How to do it is another matter.

Yeah, I noticed after I posted that it wasn't clear what I was referring to. I meant that basing it on the number of diplos you have wasn't a good idea.

[Indirik]

The point is I'm getting the feeling that most people just want an autopilot system more or less.

I agree. I have proposed something among the devs that I think will do the trick. Not sure if it will be accepted, though.

[egamma]

Make friction slower for smaller realms--this solves the small realm complaint, doesn't it? And it makes more sense that a smaller realm would have fewer disagreements/red tape/etc

Make friction faster for realms with more treaties. This helps the massive, eternal alliance problem.

[Chenier]

Make friction slower for smaller realms--this solves the small realm complaint, doesn't it? And it makes more sense that a smaller realm would have fewer disagreements/red tape/etc

Make friction faster for realms with more treaties. This helps the massive, eternal alliance problem.

The first point is valid. The second is just overkill as friction is already higher in such realms as diplomats have to spread their work on more treaties than others.

I just don't like the mechanic at all, though. I think it's pretty bad RP. Treaties aren't things that cease to exist because they are unpopular, they remain permanently until either their term is up or they are actively broken by the head of states.

Something that would make more RP sense would be that the treaties don't break, but that low treaty maintenance causes region stat drops. Though more realistic, in terms of gameplay I'd judge it even worse. I think we are trying to control how people play way too much with this mechanic. And basic psychology says that incentives always work better than dissuasive. Personally, I do not see any continent have peace problems right now, and I haven't in a while. Why don't we just wait 'till such problems occur again before bringing out the big guns? Because imo, treaty friction is lowering the average fun level in order to boost the minimum fun level. If there's no one at the minimum fun level to benefit from this change, why lower the average fun level?