Message System - Feedback Wanted

[Tom]

It sounds like it may be interesting, especially for new players, to get a pre-built history. I do see some issues, though, with characters switching realms and suddenly getting access to the last 30-days of messages.Great way to find out exactly what's going on in an enemy realm: Have someone join it, and *BAM*, you get the last 30-days of messages sent within that realm.

And I refuse to let new players hang in the air because of some potential exploit. Real in-game spying is already effective, this would not really add all that much.

I'm not a big fan of the message-board style approach to this. When entering a region, why should I be able to see what was said there 30 days ago? I've done region-based RPs before where I definitely would not want some random person wandering along to be able to see.
Threaded-style conversations would be a great addition. It would really help deal with the massive message traffic that we sometimes get in certain circles.

Nobody said that it would look like a forum. Apologies if that's what it sounded like. It definitely won't look or feel like a forum, you all know how opposed I was/am to the whole forum concept and how long it took until I finally installed this one here.

And you will be able to choose whether your posting stays in the local area or goes only to people who are there right now. Both make sense. One of them is not possible with the current system.

[Indirik]

And I refuse to let new players hang in the air because of some potential exploit. Real in-game spying is already effective, this would not really add all that much.

New players is definitely a valid concern. Can it be enable for new players/characters, but not those who switch realms? There is stuff that could get said in-realm that definitely would not have been said had some particular character been around. (I'm, thinking of Allison's recent joining of Aurvandil, for example. I would imagine there are things that could be said in that realm that they wouldn't say if they knew that Allison was going to get the message, too.)

And you will be able to choose whether your posting stays in the local area or goes only to people who are there right now. Both make sense.

OK, that's good. I don't really have much of an objection to being able to do it, but having the option that it *doesn't* happen works for me.

[Anaris]

Tim, I don't disagree with you. The point where we have different opinions is that you want to hack up the existing system, while I want to improve it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "hack up" vs "improve". As far as code goes, I think the existing system needs to be shot. I just don't think we should be throwing away functional concepts from the old system when we implement the new one. If that's your basic position, too, then we're on the same page :D

There will be personal messages, there will be messages to lists of recipients, that's not going to change. What might change is just how many "convenience shortcuts" are all lumped up on one screen. That screen might change into something with a bit of AJAX and more of a selection wizard. Yes, maybe two more clicks, but a much more convenient interface.

I fully agree. The mockup that you demonstrated a little while back was definitely a big improvement over the existing system, even though it did require an extra click or two for some actions.

I agree that for letters between random characters, a simply addition of a conversation field, retained on reply, would allow threading and most of the other advantages. But that is not the main reason I'm thinking about this. The whole filtering thing is the main reason. You see, right now there is NO WAY to get, say, all messages from the general, if the general has changed at any time during the past 30 days. Or all messages sent to the army. Or just all the mesages sent to the realm, or even just all your region status reports. You can come close, but you can't really do it.

Actually, I'm not sure all of that's true. For the General, you're absolutely right, and maybe the region status reports. The existing message search feature should make it possible to find pretty much any of the others, however.

And I think you should. Getting all the past (30 days) region reports should be easy for a region lord.

Absolutely. There should be a lot more intelligence in the message system, and we do need to add more to the DB to enable some of that complexity.

[Anaris]

And I refuse to let new players hang in the air because of some potential exploit. Real in-game spying is already effective, this would not really add all that much.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this. I like the idea in general, but I do think that we should put some care and thought into making it a little harder to use for exploitative purposes. As Indirik says, one simple thing that would help a lot is only allowing new characters to get that history.

If you're also willing to come down like the proverbial ton of bricks on the first 2-3 people who try creating a character solely to pick up that message history for their friends in another realm, then I'm all for it.

[egamma]

Features that I, as a player at all levels of the hierarchy, would like to see:Folders

I want a folder for all reports.
I want a folder for all messages containing scribe notes.
I want a folder for messages from my marshal and general. If I am on a military council, I want messages sent to "military council" to go into a folder.

If I am in the "inner circle" or "house of lords" or "senate", then I want those messages in those folders as well.

A folder called "liege" and a folder called "nobles under you" should be created to emphasize my place in the hierarchy, and enable me to better respond to those next to my in the hierarchy.

I'm not sure if you want to set this up on your end, or maybe give users the ability to organize these items by themselves.

[Foundation]

Ah, these are what Tom is talking about.  Folders are very similar to the Conversations he mentioned or the Filters Tim talked about.

[Velax]

You see, right now there is NO WAY to get, say, all messages from the general, if the general has changed at any time during the past 30 days.

Just as a point of interest, that's not entirely true. You can do a "Search for Text in Message" using whatever your realm uses for the general's title, such as "Lord Protector of Arcaea".

[fodder]

i was thinking recipient list (within realm) should look a bit more like hierarchy list. that way, you can get rid of all the "own region/duchy" stuff you have currently up top.

basically... something like

some/all of your realm mates....
"some" will go to a page that looks like...

[ ]duchy of X
[ ]duke K
-[ ]region Y
-[ ]lord A
--[ ]knight B, knight C, etc
[ ]duchy of Z
[ ]duke L

etc...

so if you tick the duchy of blah box, you tick everyone in it.. (can then untick individual person from selection)

i guess you could also add another layer up top with a realm tickbox... that would just mean all in realm.

----
only thing is.. atm, you do not actually exist in the hierarchy tree if you don't have an estate, is not a lord/duke/ruler...

[Perth]

only thing is.. atm, you do not actually exist in the hierarchy tree if you don't have an estate, is not a lord/duke/ruler...

Just add a "Unlanded Nobility" box to the end of the list after all the duchies.

[ ]duchy of X
[ ]duke K
-[ ]region Y
-[ ]lord A
--[ ]knight B, knight C, etc
[ ]duchy of Z
[ ]duke L
[ ]Unlanded Nobility
-[ ]Unlanded Noble A
-[ ]Unlanded Noble B

[fodder]

oh yeah i know you can do that.. but you see.. in the realm hierarchy tree atm, there is no such thing. so they need to add that in.

[Azerax]

hmm, I've never found the current message system to be a problem.  All the options are there that I need, and more.

[egamma]

One of the biggest things I find is hard is messaging the same 4 people over and over again--there should be a "reply to all" for any non-auto group.

[Azerax]

One of the biggest things I find is hard is messaging the same 4 people over and over again--there should be a "reply to all" for any non-auto group.

ah yes, reply to all, would be cool.  Other than that, the current message system is quite good.

[Tom]

ah yes, reply to all, would be cool.  Other than that, the current message system is quite good.

Trust me, when you've seen the new one you won't think that anymore. :-)

[Charles]

I don't really have much of a problem with the current system, but most of the changes that you suggest sound neat.  The most important ones in my mind are being able to see the conversation.  I frequently have to go back and try to figure out what someone else said to bring about the responce that I recieved. 
Having something like the reply all would be nice, but if somehow the system regates that need, then I look forward to seeing the new system.