Barca

[Galvez]

A) General Provisions
iv. No signing realm shall prohibit its nobles from adhering to any faith which is permitted in another signing realm.
v. A signing realm shall be free to regulate religions within its borders as it sees fit, provided it does not damage the lands or security of other signing realms.

We do not prohibit our nobles from adhering to SA. You only can't preach the word of SA or construct any temples/shrines.

[Indirik]

It is interesting that the Treaty of the Maroccidens declares that only Republics can be in the Veinsormoot, yet one of the three founding members is a Monarchy. ???

[Telrunya]

D'Hara follows a Republican System, albeit I consider her still largely influenced by her Monarchy backgrounds. But really, there's no easy way to change the official Government type. The 'Rebellion' that took place was done entirely peaceful and through the Election system when the previous King abdicated due inactivity.

[Bael]

D'Hara follows a Republican System, albeit I consider her still largely influenced by her Monarchy backgrounds. But really, there's no easy way to change the official Government type. The 'Rebellion' that took place was done entirely peaceful and through the Election system when the previous King abdicated due inactivity.

Yes, I was quite surprised to see that D'Hara was a monarchy. I assumed that they were a republic, for some reason.  ???

[Vellos]

It is interesting that the Treaty of the Maroccidens declares that only Republics can be in the Veinsormoot, yet one of the three founding members is a Monarchy. ???

We don't require that you be a republic.

No realm shall be admitted to this agreement which has not adopted a republican style of governance.

We require a republican style of governance.

D'Hara is not formally a republic maybe, but they have regular voting on many positions (including, crucially, the ruler), give the most significant legislative power to the lords, and generally feel like a republic to the politicians in Terran.

[Indirik]

Hmm... That's easily read as requiring a realm to actually be a republic. I do see what you mean, though.

[Vellos]

Hmm... That's easily read as requiring a realm to actually be a republic. I do see what you mean, though.

It is indeed easily read that way. We would prefer formal republics, but we do not want to prohibit realms which operate under the same guiding principles, but with a different title.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Some time ago soon after the SA vs. Caerwyn war started, I took action to protect my peole against the influences of the SA by prohibiting priests from preaching within Barca, or building shrines and temples. I kindly informed Medugnatos Stormcrow about it, and I believe he passed on my letter to the rest of SA. But that has been some time ago.

Yes, we need some battles. And if the monsters ain't coming to us, we will come to them.

Why would SA priests be penalized? Caerwyn started the war. Way back to Saxon-Thulsoma the war was originally Libero versus Saxon-Thulsoma until the Saxons started torturing SA priests... Everyone west of Morek throws a fit about bad SA! bad bad SA! And then Averoth marches to defend Saxon-Thulsoma, they are attacked by the SA crusade, and then everyone west of Morek says "Bad SA BAD BAD". Can you guys not see how hypocritical your governments and realms are? How you bandy about honour and fairness and knights in glittering armour with republican values... Actually, look up the republican government system, it doesn't mean neo-conseravtive 2011 Republican party form of government, it means the republics of the ancient greeks. Do any of you understand that by your very actions you create your own enemies, the evil does not reside outside, it festers within.

[Galvez]

I understand very well what kind of Republic we are, and what kind we are not.

However, you can never take preaching rights for granted. We had the dignity to inform them in advance that they are not allowed to preach in Barca.

[Fleugs]

Everyone west of Morek throws a fit about bad SA! bad bad SA! And then Averoth marches to defend Saxon-Thulsoma, they are attacked by the SA crusade, and then everyone west of Morek says "Bad SA BAD BAD".

Only Astrum is west of Morek... I seem to be missing something here; the last time I checked they were part of the bad-bad SA.

Can you guys not see how hypocritical your governments and realms are? How you bandy about honour and fairness and knights in glittering armour with republican values... Actually, look up the republican government system, it doesn't mean neo-conseravtive 2011 Republican party form of government, it means the republics of the ancient greeks. Do any of you understand that by your very actions you create your own enemies, the evil does not reside outside, it festers within.

Ah, a classical! It does not mean republics as they were in ancient Greek cities. The Greek society is not the European medieval society; some people named the Romans came right in between and, albeit they stole a lot of the Greek, left a mark on Europe. Not to mention that whatever the Renaissance-folks said, the medieval people actually did manage to figure some stuff out for themselves. So they're equally 2011-Republican party as Greek-republican. Do you have any idea how a Greek republic, if it can even be summarized under one term, works?

[JPierreD]

Ah, a classical! It does not mean republics as they were in ancient Greek cities. The Greek society is not the European medieval society; some people named the Romans came right in between and, albeit they stole a lot of the Greek, left a mark on Europe. Not to mention that whatever the Renaissance-folks said, the medieval people actually did manage to figure some stuff out for themselves. So they're equally 2011-Republican party as Greek-republican. Do you have any idea how a Greek republic, if it can even be summarized under one term, works?

^ That

When I see Republic, it comes to my mind more something like Venice or Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

[Glaumring the Fox]

I was kind of dissing your form of Republic, maybe you didn't get my oh so witty humour. Republic' to indicate rule by many and by laws, is one term. Basically by unilaterally limiting the movement of priests and religion within the republic without public referendum you go against the spirit of Republic. Instead what you have is a dictatorship. Caerwyn became a theocratic Oligarchy, a state controlled by the ruling priest class one that went against the idea of republic, using false information and propaganda, fear to control thought within the state and only allow certain forms of ideas as long as they did not go against the Theocratic state.  Sounds kind of like what had happened in modern Iran, or Cambodia circa the Khmer rouge.

Instead in Asylon, we practice that all religions are equal as long as they are loyal to the state and do not actively try to subvert the state. Making Asylon a freer and truer form of the enlightened republic than one merely in name. We actually promote and protect tolerance.

Now, on the other hand I am not saying 'SA' is better, they are also extremely xenophobic and theocracies, but at least they do not pretend to be anything else. There is a simple fact, if you are evil and pretend, lie and misinform that you are good it still makes you evil... At least SA is truthful and does not bend to whatever whim that blows across their bow. I can trust that form of thought because even though it is insane at least one can deal with it in logical progression, unlike these wishy washy republics that are basically just oligarchies and dictatorships wrapped up in flowery language, without any real substance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion

Through control of religion your state is actually a 'Theocratic republic'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_republic

[De-Legro]

I was kind of dissing your form of Republic, maybe you didn't get my oh so witty humour. Republic' to indicate rule by many and by laws, is one term. Basically by unilaterally limiting the movement of priests and religion within the republic without public referendum you go against the spirit of Republic. Instead what you have is a dictatorship. Caerwyn became a theocratic Oligarchy, a state controlled by the ruling priest class one that went against the idea of republic, using false information and propaganda, fear to control thought within the state and only allow certain forms of ideas as long as they did not go against the Theocratic state.  Sounds kind of like what had happened in modern Iran, or Cambodia circa the Khmer rouge.

Instead in Asylon, we practice that all religions are equal as long as they are loyal to the state and do not actively try to subvert the state. Making Asylon a freer and truer form of the enlightened republic than one merely in name. We actually promote and protect tolerance.

Now, on the other hand I am not saying 'SA' is better, they are also extremely xenophobic and theocracies, but at least they do not pretend to be anything else. There is a simple fact, if you are evil and pretend, lie and misinform that you are good it still makes you evil... At least SA is truthful and does not bend to whatever whim that blows across their bow. I can trust that form of thought because even though it is insane at least one can deal with it in logical progression, unlike these wishy washy republics that are basically just oligarchies and dictatorships wrapped up in flowery language, without any real substance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion

Through control of religion your state is actually a 'Theocratic republic'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_republic

Historically Republics have ALWAYS limited who was eligible to engage in the political process. Only in modern times have the concept of true republics arisen. Even in Greek city states, the process was limited to those deemed worthy of full citizenship.

What they are trying to point out is that as discussed numerous times, the republic system in BM is meant to reflect true historic republics, not some idealised form from modern thinking.

[Glaumring the Fox]

You said nothing to diprove that your nation is merely SA-lite. Theocratic republic . Mirror images of your nemesis. Without the conviction.

[De-Legro]

You said nothing to diprove that your nation is merely SA-lite. Theocratic republic . Mirror images of your nemesis. Without the conviction.

I play in PeL, last I checked we mostly ignore SA and get busy destroying ourselves. It says so right there in my little signature.