Author Topic: Winter comes again!  (Read 16882 times)

BardicNerd

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #15: September 12, 2012, 01:00:21 AM »
Any damage you can do to food stocks is both easier and more effective in autumn than in winter.
Well, to food supply, yes.  To existing stocks, it's about as easy any time, and probably most damaging in the winter (since that's when they're most needed).

Chenier

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #16: September 12, 2012, 01:04:57 AM »
Well, to food supply, yes.  To existing stocks, it's about as easy any time, and probably most damaging in the winter (since that's when they're most needed).

Experience suggests that if you loot for x hours with y men, you will burn more food if the warehouses have 5000 bushels than if they have 200. Therefore, to maximize food burnt ratio by men by hours spent, it is preferable to attack them when the warehouses are the most filled.

Also, if you can loot enough to provoke starvation, then doing so earlier can extend the starvation period as well.

My observations may have been misleading, however.
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BardicNerd

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #17: September 12, 2012, 05:17:40 AM »
Experience suggests that if you loot for x hours with y men, you will burn more food if the warehouses have 5000 bushels than if they have 200. Therefore, to maximize food burnt ratio by men by hours spent, it is preferable to attack them when the warehouses are the most filled.

Also, if you can loot enough to provoke starvation, then doing so earlier can extend the starvation period as well.

My observations may have been misleading, however.
Actually, on average, the warehouses are most filled during winter.  For most realms, of course, the absolute most food in the warehouses would (generally) be either the last day of autumn or the first day of winter (depending on how the game calculates things).  However, barring changes in food supply other than seasonal changes (obviously never the case), amount of food in the warehouses at the start of autumn is:
S
and at the end is:
S + 2H - C
where S equals initial stores, H equals normal daily harvest, and C equals daily consumption.  In winter it is at the beginning:
S + 2H - C
and at the end:
S + 9/4H - 2C

There are more elegant formulas to find the average at any time, but I forget enough statistics that I'll leave that for another time or someone else.  But basically, for realms that have more or less equal production and consumption (or higher production than consumption), you end winter with more food than you began autumn.


In short: storehouses are most filled at the end of autumn and beginning of winter with a slight skew towards winter because they don't empty as fast as they fill.

Geronus

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #18: September 12, 2012, 06:19:55 AM »
Actually, on average, the warehouses are most filled during winter.  For most realms, of course, the absolute most food in the warehouses would (generally) be either the last day of autumn or the first day of winter (depending on how the game calculates things).  However, barring changes in food supply other than seasonal changes (obviously never the case), amount of food in the warehouses at the start of autumn is:
S
and at the end is:
S + 2H - C
where S equals initial stores, H equals normal daily harvest, and C equals daily consumption.  In winter it is at the beginning:
S + 2H - C
and at the end:
S + 9/4H - 2C

There are more elegant formulas to find the average at any time, but I forget enough statistics that I'll leave that for another time or someone else.  But basically, for realms that have more or less equal production and consumption (or higher production than consumption), you end winter with more food than you began autumn.


In short: storehouses are most filled at the end of autumn and beginning of winter with a slight skew towards winter because they don't empty as fast as they fill.

In a world where your fields and warehouses aren't being burnt to a crisp all autumn long, your supposition holds true. In a world where your fields and warehouses are being burnt to a crisp, your region will already be starving when winter sets in. The resulting math is much less pretty.

Tom

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #19: September 12, 2012, 07:40:32 AM »
Experience suggests that if you loot for x hours with y men, you will burn more food if the warehouses have 5000 bushels than if they have 200. Therefore, to maximize food burnt ratio by men by hours spent, it is preferable to attack them when the warehouses are the most filled.

Beginning of winter, then. ;-)

BardicNerd

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #20: September 12, 2012, 07:43:48 AM »
In a world where your fields and warehouses aren't being burnt to a crisp all autumn long, your supposition holds true. In a world where your fields and warehouses are being burnt to a crisp, your region will already be starving when winter sets in. The resulting math is much less pretty.
Well, yes.  But the point was when a single looting attack would find the most food in stores.

To actually do the most damage, drive their rurals into the ground for all of autumn, and they will suffer.

Chenier

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #21: September 12, 2012, 01:51:07 PM »
Beginning of winter, then. ;-)

I'd say right before winter, because in winter travel is longer, therefore giving you less hours to loot. ;)

Travel delays are a greater impairment to the attacker than the defender, as the latter doesn't have as far to travel to intercept. Winter is not invasion-friendly.
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Galvez

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #22: October 05, 2012, 11:18:13 AM »
At the same time, I'll use RL logic regarding winter: who wants to march in snow, or fight in the freezing wind? Winter wars make people absolutely miserable on each side. Invasions of western Russia by any number of militaries springs to mind...
A quote comes to mind:

"Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war, is: 'Do not march on Moscow' " - Viscount Montgomery Of Alamein
"Men willingly believe what they wish." - Julius Caesar

vonGenf

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #23: October 05, 2012, 12:08:27 PM »
"Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war, is: 'Do not march on Moscow' " - Viscount Montgomery Of Alamein

What other choice do you have once you got yourself embroiled in a land war in Asia?!?  :o
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Galvez

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #24: October 05, 2012, 04:29:17 PM »
What other choice do you have once you got yourself embroiled in a land war in Asia?!?  :o

That's rule 2:

"(Rule 2) is: 'Do not go fighting with your land armies in China."

Just stay away from Moscow and China and surrounding Asian nations. Just go conquer the Levant, like literally everyone in history has done.
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Anaris

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #25: October 05, 2012, 04:41:40 PM »
That's rule 2:

"(Rule 2) is: 'Do not go fighting with your land armies in China."

Just stay away from Moscow and China and surrounding Asian nations. Just go conquer the Levant, like literally everyone in history has done.

Nono, it's the most well-known of the classic blunders. Only slightly less well-known is "never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line."

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JPierreD

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #26: October 06, 2012, 12:26:07 AM »
A quote comes to mind:

"Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war, is: 'Do not march on Moscow' " - Viscount Montgomery Of Alamein

That's rule 2:

"(Rule 2) is: 'Do not go fighting with your land armies in China."

Just stay away from Moscow and China and surrounding Asian nations. Just go conquer the Levant, like literally everyone in history has done.

The mongols would disagree.
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egamma

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #27: October 06, 2012, 01:00:06 AM »
The mongols would disagree.

The mongols didn't march--they rode.

Lanyon

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #28: October 06, 2012, 01:09:28 AM »
The mongols are always the exception. See john green's video series on youtube about world history. (funniest history lesson ever!)

Marlboro

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Re: Winter comes again!
« Reply #29: October 07, 2012, 09:18:15 PM »
Just go conquer the Levant, like literally everyone in history has done.

Pretty good accounting of that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY
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