Author Topic: Rogue Judges  (Read 35845 times)

Vellos

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Re: Rogue Judges
« Reply #90: October 09, 2012, 05:42:16 AM »
I would just like to put it on record that this is exactly what one deserves for trusting a Leonidas.  Execute first, ask questions later.

As for the RP explanation...Yes, I am glad Tom has made some changes, and as long as this is somewhat limited I don't expect anything further to cause this level of chaos, but consider, for a moment, the implications of having the second most powerful noble in your realm working, for weeks and months, to completely undermine the realm.  That would be absolutely devastating if done correctly, and arranging for the King's messengers to be suborned, assassinated, or discredited as a contingency plan makes perfect sense to me.  I can think of half a dozen reasonably plausible ways to account for what happened, assuming significant amounts of money and influence, which Seperoth certainly would have had.  Whether he had the brains for them or not I will not comment on OOC (my opening remark was a purely Jenredian response, for those uncertain).

I agree that this is an extreme example, but not nearly as extreme as the Thulsoman exploits, and I don't think it's fair at all to make accusations of anything other than taking something a bit far.  I myself was unaware that a new Judge couldn't unban people in the event of a mass and immediate protest to remove the previous Judge, and since that particular loophole has been closed, 'ware to those who piss off their Judges.

+1

Said what I wanted to say much better.

Neither were powerful bureaucrats.

The power structure in the middle ages had two key ingredients: it was local and it was personal (rather than national). In BM you do often see elected Judges as counterweights to the Crown but this was not something you'd see in a medieval government -- a council member might very well be able to pull strings and work against the crown but it would be in a much more Game of Thrones Small Council type of way and not in a 'I have actual specific power over these things that the King does not have.'

Also, "loss of position" in the middle ages meant "loss of life" or "you've been conquered" for landed nobility. The idea of a Count suddenly not being a Count even though he was still around is a BM convention, not a historical convention. In fact you had the opposite problem -- if the guy was alive, even if he was a drooling idiot, you'd have a paralyzed government. "Anarchy" did not exist in the middle ages anywhere near the scale it does in BM.

See above.

It's not about technical or specific legal power. It's about the ease of forging it, ESPECIALLY when the King is running a TO off in an enemy mountain territory in the dead of winter. Hell, it's entirely plausible he could have told all the minor nobles, via various and sundry underhanded techniques and information networks he built up over a long time, that all the elite nobles murdered the king in Haul. Now, maybe he didn't– but the idea that no IC explanation could exist is just silly.

(that said– I do think that what should happen in that case is something along the lines of all banned nobles automatically joining a rebel underground, from which they can then launch a rebellion– this would be a realistic response. The only way the judge could have that power is if he plausibly convinced minor nobles the king was illegitimate/dead. Reconvincing them otherwise should not be a given, so booting the ruler to replace the judge seems reasonable)
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