Author Topic: Villains make the game fun  (Read 37179 times)

Lorgan

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #90: October 23, 2012, 06:33:26 PM »
I'm not saying change the character, it's certainly realistic and well-RPed, but change what's made public - even if people only know OOC that your character is a filthy raping hound of a man, it'll influence your ability to do any sort of intrigue or whatever. IDK, I think what you're doing now is fine, but don't be upset if you don't go as far as fast as other people.

I for one am interested to see how high such a character can climb. :)

Chenier

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #91: October 24, 2012, 12:59:23 AM »
I for one am interested to see how high such a character can climb. :)

Depends on whose around him.

If there's a Machiavellian-type character in the realm, he might try to instrument you to his own ("mutual") ends, propping you into positions of power you couldn't have achieved on your own.

If it's just a bunch of uptight do-gooders, you probably won't go far.
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Sonya

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #92: October 24, 2012, 07:41:58 PM »
Nice idea, i will turn one of my characters into a villain, i have the perfect starting plot.....The TAXES!

I refuse to pay toll booth and got jailed for creating chaos on public, but once is free will rise for Power. Sadly an Adventurer = nobody.

Goal checklist:

1- Oppression by Government (what turned me evil). CHECK
2- Scape Jail. To-Do.
3- Swear vengeance.To-Do.
4- Steal Noble Papers/RecommendationTo-Do.
5- Falsificate Family Name Birth CredentialsTo-Do.
6- Join the Underground RebellionTo-Do.
7- Find followersTo-Do.
8- Rise for PowerTo-Do.
9- Plan RebellionTo-Do.
10-? ? ? ? Ohh I seee!
11- The One and Only! Bow to me or Die, yess also To-Do


I see now, so this is how is, this thread have show me the DESTINY that awaits me!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 07:53:59 PM by Sonya »

Morningstar

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #93: October 26, 2012, 01:21:03 AM »
However, I would challenge anyone to provide evidence of Delvin as a villain that doesn't boil down to, "He was an effective ruler of a realm I considered an enemy."

If one views themselves as the protagonist (and really, who doesn't in large part?) then anyone who stands opposed to you is, by definition, the antagonist. Ergo, an effective ruler of an enemy realm would become a villain to anyone deeming themselves the hero.

In other news, I would probably be hard pressed to find a character I've had here that didn't at least sometimes exhibit villainous qualities. The ones that didn't were ones I cast aside as failed characters rather quickly. My villainy usually comes in the form of painting others into a corner and stirring up the masses/knights/lords/mindless sheep (all pretty much the same) to band together against said person/realm. This sometimes looks like vendettas and rivalries, sometimes looks like intense hatred for perceived past oppression, and sometimes looks on the surface to be righteous indignation against injustice. I've toppled upstanding, good, noble opponents before just by convincing people that my cause/belief was more good/noble. And that's just as villainous as my untouchable assassin who ran an "eye scream cart" with the remains of her victims. Maybe more so.

Chenier

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #94: October 26, 2012, 01:56:52 AM »
Nicolas Chénier was the greatest of heroes, then.
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Ironsides

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #95: October 30, 2012, 05:24:15 AM »

There is a great joy to being a villain, even though it might take forever to experience it or it comes in one big swoop and  then drops off for years. I can say that of all my characters I have had the most fun being a demon with Bowie, and that wasn't always doing bad things. Just saying bad things is fun. He nearly lost his head for offending the daimons. Ha!

Heroes are fun to play too, but I find that nobody plays heroes (real heroes, the class) well enough. When Armstrong became a hero that was a defining moment in his life. Everything afterward revolved around the fact that he was a hero. Everyone else was all like "just because I'm a hero doesn't mean I am above anyone." And I always said, "yes it does!" You're the one who is supposed to wear the shiniest armour and laud your glory more than anyone else. You have the potential to die, they don't. You are the one who wants to be at the front of the line and counting heads (not in the maniac way, but in the "look at my offerings to you my king/god (if they're zealot heroes)). Heroes are supposed to shine twice as bright and half as long. Others are supposed to look to you and say, "his achievements and glory far accede my own. he is someone to elevate." If even for RP moments. Otherwise, why be a hero?
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Norrel

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #96: October 30, 2012, 06:56:34 AM »
Heroes are fun to play too

They're not exactly opposites. Someone can be of the hero class and still be a villain.
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Ironsides

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #97: October 31, 2012, 04:20:37 AM »
They're not exactly opposites. Someone can be of the hero class and still be a villain.

True, but I suppose it depends on if you consider "hero" a protagonist character and a "villain" an antagonist/diabolical one. Heroes tend to be good in nature and villains bad. You are right though.
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Woelfy

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #98: October 31, 2012, 05:44:22 AM »
There are some Heroic Villains. I like to think of them as Lawful Evil people somewhat, to steal a reference from D&D. They uphold the law, have a distinct code of ethics no matter how twisted, but are solely out for their own gain.

Chenier

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #99: October 31, 2012, 12:14:18 PM »
An evil and cruel tyrant who puts himself at risk to defend his nation against a large coalition can be a hero to those he defends, regardless of how justified the invasion may be.
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Anaris

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #100: October 31, 2012, 12:22:03 PM »
An evil and cruel tyrant who puts himself at risk to defend his nation against a large coalition can be a hero to those he defends, regardless of how justified the invasion may be.

See: King Brandin of Ygrath, Tigana; Baron Klaus Wulfenbach, Girl Genius....probably many others :)
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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #101: October 31, 2012, 03:39:38 PM »
I'm not convinced the Baron is evil. I mean, really, what has he done other than the invasion of Heterodyne city?
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Anaris

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #102: October 31, 2012, 03:40:23 PM »
I'm not convinced the Baron is evil. I mean, really, what has he done other than the invasion of Heterodyne city?

Didn't say he was evil. He's a tyrant, though.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Morningstar

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #103: October 31, 2012, 04:40:58 PM »
Didn't say he was evil. He's a tyrant, though.

This. He's been the most confusing character in a cast of ulterior-motive characters. And I think it's largely because we see only what he does, but not really what motivates him, unlike the others. He comes off as quite the ill-intending tyrant most of the time- it's how he united his empire in the first place. But do we mark a villain so simply because we don't know what his motives are?

That's probably a question of justice vs mercy. Intent vs letter of the law.

Anaris

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Re: Villains make the game fun
« Reply #104: October 31, 2012, 04:48:02 PM »
This. He's been the most confusing character in a cast of ulterior-motive characters. And I think it's largely because we see only what he does, but not really what motivates him, unlike the others. He comes off as quite the ill-intending tyrant most of the time- it's how he united his empire in the first place. But do we mark a villain so simply because we don't know what his motives are?

That's probably a question of justice vs mercy. Intent vs letter of the law.

(Veering totally offtopic, but hey, this is fun...)

Oh, I think we know exactly what his motives are. Not all of them, of course, but the main one is just order. "I was away for a few years, and came back to a world in ruins. Death, destruction, chaos, the endless fighting...So I stopped it. And I did it my way this time. No more negotiating. No more promises. No more second chances. And I did it alone. Because I had to. And it worked."

Fundamentally, Klaus is "one of the good guys", in that he does want what's best for Europa. He doesn't want war and chaos and destruction the way some sparks do, and he's both self-controlled enough not to create it by accident (usually), and savvy enough to know how to prevent it in others. His entire rationale for wanting to capture or kill Agatha, the entire time, is because he believes that whether she is a true Heterodyne heir or not, whether she is the Other or not, she will cause massive chaos in Europa. She will upset the balance he has striven for decades to create and preserve. And he's right about that. Even if she wins, there's no guarantee that a Pax Heterodynia would be better than the existing Pax Wulfenbachia.

From an objective standpoint, if we weren't presented with Agatha Heterodyne as the sympathetic protagonist, Klaus Wulfenbach would be the hero of the story, and the one we should be rooting for.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan