CE-Tara Federation

[Anaris]

It was my understanding that the Long Peace on EC was due to OOC considerations. The people in charge were using OOC friendships and relations to maintain their control of the situation. They controlled 4 or so of the 6 federated realms, right? That's why lightning bolts were needed to break it up. The OOC collusion was too strong for IC pressure to break it apart.

(Disclaimer: That was a long time ago, before I was a dev, and I wasn't privy to all the details. I could be wrong.)

However, my interpretation of what I was replying to was that the people in the realms would get fed up with the peace and make war happen.

In this case, it was the leaders of the realms who had OOC friendships.

To some extent, the reasons for the leaders to maintain the peace almost doesn't matter. We know there are motivations for the powerful to maintain peace. The question is how they prevent the rabble from overthrowing them to create war.

[Perth]

The main point is that this form of federation control has worked for a long time now. It worked long enough that everyone else got fed up with it, and tried to stop it from then on. This realm wide "revolt" if you will. Failed for a number of reasons but was essentially the last ditch effort by non-federation forces to change the situation. But, now that they've lost its essentially impossible to ever start up such a revolt again so the federation has essentially "Won" Atamara.

This.

What is even more terrifying is that at this point CE and friends don't even seem interested in any kind of peace that would at least preserve any semblence of the two sides of this conflict. Both Darka and Eston have contacted CE on numerous occasion since the fall of Hammarsett asking for terms only to be completely ignored or blown off. This can only mean that they are seeking the destruction of yet one more of the Northern Realms, which can be assumed to be either Eston or Darka, meaning whenever the war finally does end it the entire island will literally be under Cagilan domination. Crazy.

Thank you for this. It really pushes home the reality of the situation.

Now, given what I have said above, just imagine the Empire side also having destroyed Darka or Eston and a Cagil colony in their place.

[m2rt]

Oh come on... Quit whining OOC and play the game. Every island is different and unique. My char has been trying hard to be in the CE "block", but its not a plain block. Every realm inside has its own opinion and voice. Things are damn interesting.

What  I agree, is that indeed, it would be great if threats can come from other islands too. But otherwise it really does not deserve an OOC poll.

Lets PLAY the game IC!

[Azerax]

I think the CE-Tara federation speaks more about the quality of the northern alliance then it does of CE's ability to control the island, it's just the result.

And I'm fine with it, even though it landed me in CE's prison for a short vacation.  Hopefully something will energize the north (perhaps CE expanding into Eston?) and the Northern Alliance will become the Mongol Horde and destroy CE.

[Anaris]

I think the CE-Tara federation speaks more about the quality of the northern alliance then it does of CE's ability to control the island, it's just the result.

And I'm fine with it, even though it landed me in CE's prison for a short vacation.  Hopefully something will energize the north (perhaps CE expanding into Eston?) and the Northern Alliance will become the Mongol Horde and destroy CE.

I've been saying for years that Darka's refusal to ever take on Talerium would come back to bite them.

[Azerax]

This.

What is even more terrifying is that at this point CE and friends don't even seem interested in any kind of peace that would at least preserve any semblence of the two sides of this conflict. Both Darka and Eston have contacted CE on numerous occasion since the fall of Hammarsett asking for terms only to be completely ignored or blown off. This can only mean that they are seeking the destruction of yet one more of the Northern Realms, which can be assumed to be either Eston or Darka, meaning whenever the war finally does end it the entire island will literally be under Cagilan domination. Crazy.


Thank you for this. It really pushes home the reality of the situation.

Now, given what I have said above, just imagine the Empire side also having destroyed Darka or Eston and a Cagil colony in their place.

If they call pull this off, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be impressed.  Aside from managing an island wide realm, it wouldn't be too long before some duke got the itch to form their own realm.

[Blue Star]

So by all these comments CE-Tara & company justifies that they are on the right track?




:) ;D

[Gustav Kuriga]

If they call pull this off, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be impressed.  Aside from managing an island wide realm, it wouldn't be too long before some duke got the itch to form their own realm.

And said duke would be targeted by all allied realms to CE or Tara.

[Azerax]

And said duke would be targeted by all allied realms to CE or Tara.

If the allied realms stick together when there is no one to fight except themselves.

[GoldPanda]

What is even more terrifying is that at this point CE and friends don't even seem interested in any kind of peace that would at least preserve any semblence of the two sides of this conflict. Both Darka and Eston have contacted CE on numerous occasion since the fall of Hammarsett asking for terms only to be completely ignored or blown off. This can only mean that they are seeking the destruction of yet one more of the Northern Realms, which can be assumed to be either Eston or Darka, meaning whenever the war finally does end it the entire island will literally be under Cagilan domination. Crazy.

CE made plenty of peace overtures to both Darka and Eston when the war was stalemated. It seems to me that Kerwin and Kostaja are only interested in peace when they are losing, and that they will be back at CE's throat as soon as CE's advantage is gone. Please tell me exactly why CE's leadership should agree to a peace now. Just how stupid do you think they are?

And many nobles in CE still remember Kerwin's gloating and boasts when the war first started (when the map did not look at all like what Sonya posted.) A little humility, and a bit of decency toward one's enemies on Kerwin's part, would have been remembered, and would have gone a long way toward helping him now.

As the Strombranians say, "Ut sementem feceris ita metes."

[jaune]

I agree with Gold Panda on this, CE dont have much of a reason to end war with us now... Only thing would be if they would be busy somewhere else or find it too expensive or frustrating to advance on our lands.

I guess this pretty much leaves us to defencive fight. I have feeling that to get peace, they want something from us... land, gold... or new satellite/buffer. I assume this war will last for a while unless north collapse totally.

CE and Coria was the only ones who replied my offer to end war, Coria replied negative and CE said they will talk about it at their senate. Tara & Stormbran were totally silent, so i guess they are not much of intrested about ending it either.

NA's biggest problem propably were that we had common goal, but very diffrent opinions and "minigoals" to achieve it. Everybody were focusing their personal intrests too... including Darka who refused to open war against Talerium and Eston who signe peace with Coria as soon as possible to secure their border. Carelia fought hard, but lost support of rest of the southeners and got beaten badly.

I could imagine things would have been diffrent if Darka had pushed to Talerium or Eston signed peace with Tallies and refused Corias offers and honey words... and most of all, if south would have really been determined to wage war against CE. So, we blew it up, cause of good politics from enemy or lack of our own planning... prolly both.

But, lets get back to the business :) Seems like this war is far from over and Eston & Darka will have rough road ahead. Now we both must hope there was atleast some sense to keep Coria and Talerium treaties. If those will join/open up borders to CE & Co. Things turn bad pretty fast.

[GoldPanda]

Two can play at this game, Sonya. Purely for educational purposes of course. ;)

Here was the state of AT at the beginning of the war, when the NA + Carelian coalition made their opening moves.



Huh. Suddenly CE and Tara doesn't seem like the big mean bullies anymore? If anything, they are the victims? How can this be? I thought Cagilans ate puppies and sacrificed babies to the volcano! No wait, the volcano is in Darka. Hmm.... ::)

And don't worry jaune, we wouldn't pull a Solaria on you. :D

[Anaris]

NA's biggest problem propably were that we had common goal, but very diffrent opinions and "minigoals" to achieve it. Everybody were focusing their personal intrests too... including Darka who refused to open war against Talerium and Eston who signe peace with Coria as soon as possible to secure their border. Carelia fought hard, but lost support of rest of the southeners and got beaten badly.

The same story you get throughout BM and real history. The Mighty Empire (whether it's Evil or not is likely to depend on your point of view) invades the Land of Several Smaller Nations, which then quarrel about how best to fight back against the Empire rather than simply coming together against the common foe. Then they get taken down one by one because they don't fully support each other, and in the end the Empire rules everything.

[Azerax]

The same story you get throughout BM and real history. The Mighty Empire (whether it's Evil or not is likely to depend on your point of view) invades the Land of Several Smaller Nations, which then quarrel about how best to fight back against the Empire rather than simply coming together against the common foe. Then they get taken down one by one because they don't fully support each other, and in the end the Empire rules everything.

This is so true, and as the Cylons says: This has all happened before and this will all happen again.

[jaune]

We really made big effort to gain support to jump on CE. It was really long negotiations, and even Darka was not sure if we should get on this mess. But finally everybody agreed that we should do this. For Darka last drop was when CE threatened that they will attack us if we continue defend Eston.

At beginning, things looked pretty good. We knew that it would not be easy to push on CE, especially if we try to keep Talerium out from this. I had hopes that Eston would eventually sign peace with Talerium and could join our front against Coria/Tara/CE, but they signed peace with wrong realm :P Things went real messy for Darka. It was reallyl close that i didnt pull out from war and sitout and watch... But Coria was pissing off me so much that i thought we should try to atleast beat em down. News from south were getting desperate, those Abbies down there simply cant be trusted.

Coria was again doing all kind of BS proposals and since i trust them as much i trust Abbies at south, i was not willing to sign their weird treaties, which were after all BS like i suspected. They were just buying more time. I'm still finding hard to believe how Eston finds them worth of ally... but i bet they do same towards us, how we can be "allies" with Talerium.

But like said earlier, now there will be evaluation time for how strong our friendships are, will Talerium keep treaty and will Coria keep their treaty.

Also, important factor is will BoM come to aid on that front, or do they keep helping MI.