Historical Duke/Margrave Dynamic

[vonGenf]

In the sense of political power, they were certainly the equivalent of Dukes as they were the next level after King.

However, in the sense of land holdings, they are more like region Lords, or like BM Dukes were prior to the change, in that their geographical base was more or less fixed (at least the center was fixed).

However the new system allows for a wider interpretation, and now would game-mechanically allow for non-contiguous, non land-based duchies such as those of the HRE.

Maybe the year in Battlemasterra is really 1337? :-)

[Scarlett]

I don't know as much German medieval history, but somehow I suspect that the non-contiguous duchies they had came about as a result of inheritance and not by design. I just don't know why you'd purposefully make them patchwork that way.

[vonGenf]

I don't know as much German medieval history, but somehow I suspect that the non-contiguous duchies they had came about as a result of inheritance and not by design. I just don't know why you'd purposefully make them patchwork that way.

But again, that is my point. The duchies were not designed to be a logical government level. In fact, they were not designed at all! A duchy is not an administrative unit - Duke is a title you give to a deserving individual.

[Scarlett]

In fact, they were not designed at all!

Perhaps not in the HRE, but that's arguably why the HRE had trouble getting off its ass during most of the middle ages - the central government (Emperor) couldn't do anything about it. The BM parallel would be efficiency. The Germans had a lot of regions but low efficiency so they couldn't get as much out of them economically or politically.

In France and England you had more of a connection between a duchy and a place. Still, you're right that the personal nature of the titles probably made someone realize "wow, this is a really terrible way of administering a country," but that is why feudalism ended -  until it did, a Duchy was an administrative unit just because the Duke was the guy who got the administer the thing.

[vonGenf]

I certainly agree with that! I have no intention of making an apology of feudalism - your analogy of efficiency in BM is apt.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Am I the only one who sees leet when you guys use 1337 over and over?

[Scarlett]

No. Edward III thought so too.

It's not a coincidence. The Hundred Years' war started in 1337 when Philip of France confiscated the Aquitaine and Edward claimed the French throne. He needed prizes so he said "poof! duchies"

[Eirikr]

Am I the only one who sees leet when you guys use 1337 over and over?

Nope.

Not that I mind the historical talks and agree it is technically still on-topic, I'm pretty sure we have a forum for just that. Would a mod mind moving the historical stuff to "Background?" It's getting away from the point I was interested in, specifically how people are embracing or rejecting the duke/margrave change, not how accurate it is.  :) Cool stuff, though.