Madinan reunion?

[Perth]

In reply to perth, what do you feel is so terible about the falkirians and the Madina before them?
I know nothing of this new state, even thou i play in D'hara, they have no info on there realm page, no wiki, nothing.
I geus its just a duchy in Aruvendil, but not really because as a seperate realm they have certain advantages.

I just meant in as much as Aurvandil replaced Madina as the southern power.

[Chenier]

I just meant in as much as Aurvandil replaced Madina as the southern power.

Madina was a "Power"?

We always feared they would backstab us, but not that they would achieve much on their own against us...

[Vellos]

Madina was a "Power"?

We always feared they would backstab us, but not that they would achieve much on their own against us...

There was a time, pre-Aurvandil, when Madina was really a power– without Terran, they wouldn't burnt Paisly to the ground. And there was even a time post-Aurvandil as well when Madina was quite strong, albeit contained by Aurvandil.

[Chenier]

There was a time, pre-Aurvandil, when Madina was really a power– without Terran, they wouldn't burnt Paisly to the ground. And there was even a time post-Aurvandil as well when Madina was quite strong, albeit contained by Aurvandil.

They could never bring themselves to do anything together. They couldn't even set their minds on anything.

[Nosferatus]

They could never bring themselves to do anything together. They couldn't even set their minds on anything.

Ow now your totally cheniering by balls off pal.
madina was a place that seemed uncontroled but it was united once treatend as a whole, or in other cases when people shared intrest.

and btw, as a player i believe an enjoyable atmosphere to play in is a much greater value then military sucses or capabilities, or a strong realm policy oposed to strong indivudal characters and ambitions.
I also think Madina did fought a whole lot more serious warfare then D'hara and even terran all in all.
We fought many big battles against D'hara terran and Aurvendil.

[Chenier]

Ow now your totally cheniering by balls off pal.
madina was a place that seemed uncontroled but it was united once treatend as a whole, or in other cases when people shared intrest.

and btw, as a player i believe an enjoyable atmosphere to play in is a much greater value then military sucses or capabilities, or a strong realm policy oposed to strong indivudal characters and ambitions.
I also think Madina did fought a whole lot more serious warfare then D'hara and even terran all in all.
We fought many big battles against D'hara terran and Aurvendil.

In any case, being a "power", in my mind, implies the ability to project one's aspirations abroad. Thulsoma could also defend themselves quite well, but I'd never have qualified them as a power.

What Madina could achieve or not when cornered doesn't interest me as far as which realms are "powers", but rather what they can pull themselves to achieve purely on their own. And Madinians agreeing to getting anything done, without being forced by external factors, was quite a rare feat. As such, D'Hara has long regarded Madina as being a low threat, because the odds of them attacking were small, and the odds of them maintaining a long campaign were even smaller. If we worked on minimizing the odds of a conflict arising, it was mostly out of the now-proven-correct fear that the Lurias could and would attack us while at our weakest.

[JPierreD]

In any case, being a "power", in my mind, implies the ability to project one's aspirations abroad. Thulsoma could also defend themselves quite well, but I'd never have qualified them as a power.

What Madina could achieve or not when cornered doesn't interest me as far as which realms are "powers", but rather what they can pull themselves to achieve purely on their own. And Madinians agreeing to getting anything done, without being forced by external factors, was quite a rare feat. As such, D'Hara has long regarded Madina as being a low threat, because the odds of them attacking were small, and the odds of them maintaining a long campaign were even smaller. If we worked on minimizing the odds of a conflict arising, it was mostly out of the now-proven-correct fear that the Lurias could and would attack us while at our weakest.

Who's a power under such values? Morek, Astrum and Aurvandil only?

[Chenier]

Who's a power under such values? Morek, Astrum and Aurvandil only?

I'd add in the 'moot as a whole, even if I wouldn't qualify the individual realms in it as such. We did get all of these people to band against Aurvandil, after all. But yea.

Otherwise, if everyone is a "power", then "power" really doesn't mean anything anymore.

The church as a whole would be considered as a superpower. Aurvandil would not, considering how poorly they fair diplomatically and how it impacts their war capacities (region protests forcing lower taxes and greater control efforts).

[JPierreD]

I'd add in the 'moot as a whole, even if I wouldn't qualify the individual realms in it as such. We did get all of these people to band against Aurvandil, after all. But yea.

The 'moot as a whole doesn't fit the requirements you listed for someone to be considered a power. Either that, or Madina fits as well.

[Chenier]

The 'moot as a whole doesn't fit the requirements you listed for someone to be considered a power. Either that, or Madina fits as well.

Debatable, granted. The 'moot never initiated any project that concerns the outside world that I can recall, that is true, but that's because we never really had the desire to, unlike the Lurias or Madina who just couldn't rally the support amongst their peers to do so (they had people wanting to invade D'Hara, whereas D'Hara never really had any aspirations of conquering either of them). We did successfully repel every invasion attempt thus far, too (Madina, Caerwyn, Kabrinskia, Lurias, Aurvandil), whereas Madina lost all wars they were involved in and just got eaten up by the first enemy to show up that actually has the will to wage a serious counter-attack against them. Because the 'moot had influence, and Madina had none.

[Nosferatus]

whereas Madina lost all wars they were involved in and just got eaten up by the first enemy to show up that actually has the will to wage a serious counter-attack against them. Because the 'moot had influence, and Madina had none.

Yeah, i'd like to see D'hara fight a one on one war against aurvendil that close to there capital...
And D'hara does have way more economic potential.

I think your starting a bit of a pointless discusion chenier.

[Chenier]

Yeah, i'd like to see D'hara fight a one on one war against aurvendil that close to there capital...
And D'hara does have way more economic potential.

I think your starting a bit of a pointless discusion chenier.

I never said D'Hara on its own is a power. The difference between Madina and D'Hara is that D'Hara has friends to help out and can pull strings abroad. Madina, on the other hand, faced cold apathy at best, and a bunch of people seriously considering joining in on Aurvandil's side.

[Nosferatus]

yeah Madina was indeed always very isolated.
It didnt care much about the rest of the world.

I am just trying to figure out kind of what purpose your discusion has.
If where to determine Madina beeing a fun place to play in, isolation, inner conflict and especialy a unique atmosphere in culture religion and goverment structure are more important for the individual fun in my opinion.
Personally what my realm achieves in foreign policy does not intrest me as much as a player.
I set up Madina on purpose to be a place where lords can rule like kings and could execute there plans what ever they are with there knights as they wished.
I dont really like large powers on continents as it ussualy pushes all players into playing in one direction, i believed a bit more room for chaos and complexity would create a fun dynamic game, which it did in my opinion.
For example, if Madina was a very influential power, D'hara would probaly not be there and Madina would endlesly recreate its colony in Paisly and raviel, and dwilight would baiscaly fare into two directions, Madina or SA with little room for diversity.
Now there was a fun war with plenty of battles for all and a new kind of realm on the tomb isles.
I think the moot even became a sucses thanks to this madinan treat back then.
It was the first time i remember a united military alliance was seen from terran D'hara and barca.

[Chenier]

yeah Madina was indeed always very isolated.
It didnt care much about the rest of the world.

I am just trying to figure out kind of what purpose your discusion has.
If where to determine Madina beeing a fun place to play in, isolation, inner conflict and especialy a unique atmosphere in culture religion and goverment structure are more important for the individual fun in my opinion.
Personally what my realm achieves in foreign policy does not intrest me as much as a player.
I set up Madina on purpose to be a place where lords can rule like kings and could execute there plans what ever they are with there knights as they wished.
I dont really like large powers on continents as it ussualy pushes all players into playing in one direction, i believed a bit more room for chaos and complexity would create a fun dynamic game, which it did in my opinion.
For example, if Madina was a very influential power, D'hara would probaly not be there and Madina would endlesly recreate its colony in Paisly and raviel, and dwilight would baiscaly fare into two directions, Madina or SA with little room for diversity.
Now there was a fun war with plenty of battles for all and a new kind of realm on the tomb isles.
I think the moot even became a sucses thanks to this madinan treat back then.
It was the first time i remember a united military alliance was seen from terran D'hara and barca.

Someone qualified Madina as a power, a descriptor I did not agree with. A debate ensued.

I never implied that this made Madina any less fun to play in.

[Phellan]

Now now Chernier . . . with the Lord Admiral at the head Madina was a Power.  But only because Vallyn commanded the respect and power of the Dukes and Lords.   And more importantly he knew how to . . . convince (er, manipulate?) them all into following his lead.

As for my good Duke - of course there are those of us waiting around.

However, I suspect if I unpaused Vallyn at this point I'd have a right quick run to make it to Fissoa as a Rogue before I died

But, with going into my post-grad degree and not working more than full time I think it's about time I rejoin the game once more.   A year and a bit off seems like a good time to let things change.