Murderous Setting

[Foxglove]

Over the past few days several nobles in one of my realms have been trying to force a battle with a noble of another realm with which we have peaceful relations. I'd always thought this could be done by setting your unit to murderous. But, even set at murderous, no battles have been forced. There have also been no reports of a battle having been evaded.

Could someone please clarify what the conditions are for the murderous setting to kick in and create a battle?

[Telrunya]

I believe you have to be the Attackers for Murderous to work. Are you sure you aren't on the defending side sitting in a region? Could you give a bit more info on the matter?

[Eldargard]

So there is no way to attack someone you are at peace with within your own realm?

[Telrunya]

If he stays in a region and you move a Noble towards that region on murderous settings, he should be considered Attackers and hence attack the Noble.

[Chenier]

If he stays in a region and you move a Noble towards that region on murderous settings, he should be considered Attackers and hence attack the Noble.

indeed. If he keeps on the move, though, you are out of luck.

[Foxglove]

If he stays in a region and you move a Noble towards that region on murderous settings, he should be considered Attackers and hence attack the Noble.

We've tried that, with no success.

The full situation is that the noble from the peaceful realm crossed the border, so he's inside our regions. The nobles of my realm have moved into one of our regions, set to murderous, while he's been static in that same region. Another time, we've matched his movement from one of our regions to another of our regions, and all arrived in the same region at the same time after turn change (still with units set at murderous).  We also tried spreading out so that we had someone in any region he could move into. Nothing happened in any case.

So it seems like we've tried every way to trigger a battle with no success. We haven't even seen a message saying that he's evaded a battle.

[Chenier]

He needs to arrive in the region before you, and you musn't have any troops there when he arrives.

[Foxglove]

Ah, so he'd have to be alone in a region where we have no mobile troops or militia. Then if one of our nobles moved there with murderous settings it would trigger the battle? If that's right it probably explains it. So, all in all, it's fairly unlikely that a battle will happen when you're set on murderous unless you can create a very specific set of circumstances (the target noble is alone in a region when you move there set on murderous).

[Indirik]

That is correct, foxglove.

[Chenier]

Ah, so he'd have to be alone in a region where we have no mobile troops or militia. Then if one of our nobles moved there with murderous settings it would trigger the battle? If that's right it probably explains it. So, all in all, it's fairly unlikely that a battle will happen when you're set on murderous unless you can create a very specific set of circumstances (the target noble is alone in a region when you move there set on murderous).

Yes. Because murderous only makes you "attack" against other realms, it won't force them to "attack" your defending units.

If a foreign noble travels through your region, he won't have "control of the battlefield", and therefore "defender" status, unless he sits in the region alone (or with only other foreigners). If you have militia there, or realm mates, he'd need to defeat them first to gain "control of the battlefield", and as he doesn't, these units thereby confer control and "defender" status to their peers that arrive later.

The result is that using murderous settings to trigger battles in your own lands is rather difficult, but much easier to achieve in foreign lands.

[Sacha]

Perhaps murderous settings should have a chance of triggering a battle even if the murderous troops are defending? One could ambush diplomatic envoys or traders this way, which could lead to more intrigue and war.

[Indirik]

That would only work if the murderous troops were set as Attackers. Which may not be a bad idea. I don't know if that's feasible, though.

[Chenier]

That would only work if the murderous troops were set as Attackers. Which may not be a bad idea. I don't know if that's feasible, though.

Indeed. You can't force anyone to suicide themselves against your walls. If you want to, declare war.

[Anaris]

To expand a little:

Doing what you suggest would require a serious overhaul of the code that determines attackers and defenders in combat. While such a thing cannot be ruled out for once the rest of the Doctrine transition is finished, it's definitely not going to happen before then.