vice marshal/second in command - questions on formation settings

[johnjacob]

Thanks for the help in advance.

I played BM for a few years several years ago but, well the game has changed a lot in that time.  I feel I grew bored of it too soon and should have waited it out for all of these new (to me) exciting changes...but I digress.

The wiki has this to say about XOs

Vice Marshal/Second in Command (SiC)

The Vice-Marshal (generally referred to as SiC) is responsible for issuing orders when the marshal is incapacitated. He can also use the "Orders" message type when sending to members of the army.

I'm afraid I can't find the source at the moment (making me now think I may have been on an out of date page), but I also read that the XO will take command in the battle if the marshal is absent.  I assume this allows for formations to be used even if the marshal doesn't make it to the battle.

My question is - well I suppose now the first is if my understanding is how it works currently - but if that is a yes, then how the vice-marshal can control if the formation settings are used?

For example if the marshal has 'infantry wall' set for a defensive battle against a cavalry heavy attack from an enemy realm and meanwhile the vice-marshal (absent from that engagement) is attempting to deal with a few monsters/undead with a few other stragglers in the army and wants to use independent archer front openings.  Or if the marshal is wounded with a certain formation settings, will these persist at each encounter that the SiC takes command in?

Perhaps I am mistaken and vice-marshal is purely an organization leadership position and they won't take command or use formation settings in battle.  I'm just not seeing anywhere whether they will, nor the option for a SiC to toggle "use marshal's settings" nor the option for a SiC to set their own formation settings.

Cheers!


edit:

Here is the forum thread I saw before.

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,1277.msg25847.html#msg25847

Can Vice-Marshals actually do anything mechanic-wise? I could have sworn I had seen some Vice-Marshal atleast command the formation in battle sometime but now I have two of my chars as vice-marshals and no new options seem to be available.

They will implement the formation the marshal selected when the marshal is not present, but they can't select the formations themselves. Mechanics wise no, they get nothing new to play with.

So yeah what if there are two separate encounters or the marshal is injured and the formation settings need to be at least turned off?

[Anaris]

Vice-Marshals have no buttons to push beyond those that they would otherwise get. If the formation that is set by the Marshal is inappropriate for the battle the Vice-Marshal is in, then the members of the army commanded by the Vice-Marshal will be in a bad formation.

This is just part of the way the system is designed to work. It's the price you pay for having a backup for the Marshal when he's wounded or otherwise unavailable.

[Ketchum]

I have a Vice Marshal character and thus can help abit. Recently appointed however, so quite a newbie
If you referring to Offensive and Defensive formation, my Vice Marshal character able to adjust the Army formation previously. I put "Fortification Deploy" formation for Defensive battle by click on below. One thing I have to stress here is my Marshal did not put any formation previously before Vice Marshal set the army formation.

So I not sure what Anaris states, apply here By the way, my Vice Marshal is on EC island.

Under Command>Vice-Marshal Commands
There is a "Command Staff settings"

As the marshal or vice-marshal of the XXX army, you regularly meet the command staff in the planning tent, where you can review and change your settings for the next battles.
Note that these settings will only go into effect if you take command in the battle, which depends on your leadership skills, army sizes present and a few other factors, including a bit of luck.

Formation
For an offensive battle, you will deploy the forces in no specific formation.
For a defensive battle, you will deploy the forces in no specific formation.

[johnjacob]

Vice-Marshals have no buttons to push beyond those that they would otherwise get. If the formation that is set by the Marshal is inappropriate for the battle the Vice-Marshal is in, then the members of the army commanded by the Vice-Marshal will be in a bad formation.

This is just part of the way the system is designed to work. It's the price you pay for having a backup for the Marshal when he's wounded or otherwise unavailable.

I understand.  Personally I feel that the vice-marshal having a simple toggle switch to follow the marshal settings or let each unit assign their own (if they take command in a battle) would be a beneficial feature - reasonable that characters wouldn't still be following the week old settings of a seriously injured marshal or one several duchies away, and I can't imagine any sponsor assigning an XO with the behaviour you outlined except temporarily right before big battles so a functional position would allow more players opportunities - but that I'm sure belongs in a different forum.

Is Ketchum's experience a bug then?

[Eldargard]

My Vice Marshal character is also able to set the offensive and defensive formation. I have used this when leading the army in battle while the Marshal was at tournament. Now that he has returned I can still set defensive and offensive formations. I had assumed that I was meant to be able to and  that it went like this:

The Marshal sets the offensive formation to Calvary Charge and the defensive formation to mixed lines.
The Vice Marshal sets the offensive formation to Infantry Charge and the defensive formation to Infantry Wall.
If the Marshal is present in the battle and takes command, the Marshal's settings will be used.
If the Marshal is present and does not take command, individual unit settings are used.
If the Marshal is not present and the Vice Marshal takes command, the Vice-Marshal's settings will be used.
If the Marshal is not present and the Vice Marshal does not take command, individual unit setting will be used.
If neither are present, individual unit setting will be used.

Is this accurate?

[Indirik]

I believe this is a fairly recent change. Both Marshal and VM can set the formation, but it is the *same* setting. I.e. there is only one formation per army, but both have access to the controls to set it.

[Eldargard]

I see. How does Leadership come into play then?

[Telrunya]

I don't know about recent changes, but Leadership determines what Formations are available. High leadership opens up more advanced formations.

[Foundation]

A recent change allows Vice Marshals to have effectively the same options as the Marshal.

Leadership still restricts what settings are available to change to.

[Eldargard]

So the vice marshal can use the options available based on the marshal's leadership, even if their own leadership would not allow it?

[Foundation]

So the vice marshal can use the options available based on the marshal's leadership, even if their own leadership would not allow it?

No.  They are separate.  From what I could remember you can only *change* the current formation to one your leadership allows.

[johnjacob]

Okay so to summarize:

There is one "Command Tent" for the army which the Marshal and Vice-Marshal both have access to.  There they can each set the Offensive and Defensive formation that the army will follow should either one of them take command.  One can only set formations that are available to them based upon their leadership.

Questions:

If the Marshal has set a formation which is above the Vice-Marshal's leadership ability, and the Vice-Marshal takes command of forces in a battle, will that formation be used?

[Longmane]

Whatever command settings the marshal might have only come into play if they are actualy present at the begining of the battle, so either the army uses the vice-marshals if present otherwise none at all to my understanding.


I could be wrong though as I've often been so before and without doubt often will be again 

[egamma]

There's only one set of settings, that either the marshal or vice-marshal can set. Those settings will be used whenever the marshal or vice-marshal are present for battle. Presumably, your army could split in half, with the marshal in one region and the vice-marshal in another, both have battles at the same time, and both use the same settings.

[Foundation]

There's only one set of settings, that either the marshal or vice-marshal can set. Those settings will be used whenever the marshal or vice-marshal are present for battle. Presumably, your army could split in half, with the marshal in one region and the vice-marshal in another, both have battles at the same time, and both use the same settings.

Correct, the army only has one set of settings.  I recommend empirical data for the other verifications.