Kabrinskia, Astrum, and other such stuff of the North Western Astroist states.

[Vellos]

At least all the war declarations is forcing Aurvandil to knock down their taxes back down to sane levels one could expect from normal realms. 'cause seriously, it's abnormal that they could be so strong with what would otherwise be considered a poor realm.

It levels the playing field considerably, even if half of these realms can't send any military aid.

They could, though, also send financial assistance.

Indeed, I'd say, long run, provided the war declarations remain, that the Moot has a pretty good leg up.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Asylon is not anti-Astroist. We still have many members who follow the faith and we have many temples. We were against Kabrinskia only because of the constant scheming. We have not persecuted, outlawed etc any SA . We are not anti-SA we were anti-Kabrinskia.

[Ehndras]

Asylon is not anti-Astroist. We still have many members who follow the faith and we have many temples. We were against Kabrinskia only because of the constant scheming. We have not persecuted, outlawed etc any SA . We are not anti-SA we were anti-Kabrinskia.

Glaumring (IC) could've fooled me there a few times <.< Asylon is still the chief proponent of anti-SA sentiment in the north. Actually, the only anti-SA proponent in the north, as vague and mostly non-threatening as it may be.

Meh, all this is a moot point. We'll see what happens after Allison raises a ruckus (as usual), hopefully after I leave the country on Tuesday so I can actually be online when the !@#$ hits the fan.

[Ehndras]

Yes, SA dominates the religious and thus political scene in Dwilight as many of you said, because of its unity and player strength, not numbers. That's precisely the issue. Without more people like Allison, and the folks I know within SA who agree with me, I just see a ightly-knit power bloc. Sorry, folks. Its an effective tactic but a boring one. It was boring when I was in SA and it seems boring from the outside. It was boring in every strategy-war game I've ever played. Its boring on the other BM continents. Perhaps I am wrong, but I can only speak from what I have witnessed from my point of view.

I can't really complain at, I *DID* join Terran to get away from war after all...

Its when I hear people say "Join the SA, its the only hway!" that I stop and think, "would I enjoy being in the SA? Again? Not really. Would expanding SA influence make things more fun for me? Not really. Would more conflict be interesting? Now there's something worth RPing!" Granted I really like the way people like Sergio, ruler of Astrum plays, the leader of Iashalur is also high on my list and the ruler of Morek as well. Still, there are other nations, religions, and government types for a reason. A "Lets all join hands and !@#$ over everyone who's trying to be different" is NOT a recipe for success. I quite like the Cult of Bloodmoon, they make things interesting. I like people like Mendicant who cause strife and bring people together to face them, you HAVE to admit they have something good going and have a ridiculously-tight military. I like Allison's manner of inciting interesting RP opportunities, though she lost her touch for a while there. I'm doubt her current plan is public knowledge yet so I'll keep my mouth shut, but things in the SA are about to get flipped upside-down.

And yes, since when is Terran not a pretty even split between Astroists and non-Astroists? Its been quoted again, and again, and again, and was brought up by Astroists in the Senate as reasoning for better relations with the Astrocracies before they joined us against Aurvandil. By all means, lets be friends with the SA. I don't mind at all, as I said I quite like a number of Astroists. But who are you kidding? Joining SA is NOT the "only route" in Dwilight. There are always branching paths. Different ideas. New paths. New religions. New players. New nations. New blocs to be made. I for one do not want Terran assimilated into the SA. I don't want to see an SA majority. I don't want to hop on the SA bandwagon and take the easy route. I play to have fun, and I play to win, and I see whoring ourselves to the SA as the cheap but effective way to gain power. If I wanted cheap and effective I'd go back to kicking everyone's ass in standard strategy-war games.  If this was any other server I'd not mind, but Dwilight - to me - should be where all the epic RP fun happens by nature.

As such, I like the SA and don't mind working with them but I don't wish to see an SA, or anti-SA, or any sort of faction-domination.

The simple fact is that while the noni-SA factions fight amongst themselves, the SA doesn't. In the end that means the SA gets to sweep up the remnants and take what they want because everyone else will be too broke, damaged, and tired to do much of anything. To really have continent-wide fun, we need some strife in the SA.

The only person with a good idea right now is Allison. Lets see what happens.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Ehnadras, people on the forums dont need to know every nuance of IC feelings , many here cannot seperate forum and IG

Asylon is not anti-Astroist we are very much like Terran and D'Hara and have a multitude of religions in our land. I was once a Consul in SA and ruled a small theocracy. We have many Astroists in Asylon. We are and always have been anti-Kabrinskian aggression and we have bad relations with Astrum. We have good relations with Morek . There is no reason to dispute everything I say.

[Vellos]

Yes, SA dominates the religious and thus political scene in Dwilight as many of you said, because of its unity and player strength, not numbers. That's precisely the issue. Without more people like Allison, and the folks I know within SA who agree with me, I just see a ightly-knit power bloc. Sorry, folks. Its an effective tactic but a boring one. It was boring when I was in SA and it seems boring from the outside. It was boring in every strategy-war game I've ever played. Its boring on the other BM continents. Perhaps I am wrong, but I can only speak from what I have witnessed from my point of view.

I can't really complain at, I *DID* join Terran to get away from war after all...

Its when I hear people say "Join the SA, its the only hway!" that I stop and think, "would I enjoy being in the SA? Again? Not really. Would expanding SA influence make things more fun for me? Not really. Would more conflict be interesting? Now there's something worth RPing!" Granted I really like the way people like Sergio, ruler of Astrum plays, the leader of Iashalur is also high on my list and the ruler of Morek as well. Still, there are other nations, religions, and government types for a reason. A "Lets all join hands and !@#$ over everyone who's trying to be different" is NOT a recipe for success. I quite like the Cult of Bloodmoon, they make things interesting. I like people like Mendicant who cause strife and bring people together to face them, you HAVE to admit they have something good going and have a ridiculously-tight military. I like Allison's manner of inciting interesting RP opportunities, though she lost her touch for a while there. I'm doubt her current plan is public knowledge yet so I'll keep my mouth shut, but things in the SA are about to get flipped upside-down.

And yes, since when is Terran not a pretty even split between Astroists and non-Astroists? Its been quoted again, and again, and again, and was brought up by Astroists in the Senate as reasoning for better relations with the Astrocracies before they joined us against Aurvandil. By all means, lets be friends with the SA. I don't mind at all, as I said I quite like a number of Astroists. But who are you kidding? Joining SA is NOT the "only route" in Dwilight. There are always branching paths. Different ideas. New paths. New religions. New players. New nations. New blocs to be made. I for one do not want Terran assimilated into the SA. I don't want to see an SA majority. I don't want to hop on the SA bandwagon and take the easy route. I play to have fun, and I play to win, and I see whoring ourselves to the SA as the cheap but effective way to gain power. If I wanted cheap and effective I'd go back to kicking everyone's ass in standard strategy-war games.  If this was any other server I'd not mind, but Dwilight - to me - should be where all the epic RP fun happens by nature.

As such, I like the SA and don't mind working with them but I don't wish to see an SA, or anti-SA, or any sort of faction-domination.

The simple fact is that while the noni-SA factions fight amongst themselves, the SA doesn't. In the end that means the SA gets to sweep up the remnants and take what they want because everyone else will be too broke, damaged, and tired to do much of anything. To really have continent-wide fun, we need some strife in the SA.

The only person with a good idea right now is Allison. Lets see what happens.

Methinks you didn't understand anything I said.

Cult of the Bloodmoon for example– does not create conflict. Creates stability. As long as there are crazy fringe groups like the Cult, SA will always be united. Chenier has it right– SA is a huge behemoth and won't get mobilized unless you really piss'em off. But as long as people keep throwing rocks at SA (Asylon, Aurvandil... Averoth, Thulsoma, the Torenists, Summerdale), yes, SA will stay united. Just stop giving them a common enemy.

PS- you were never in SA that I recall or, if so, only for, like, a week as an aspirant member.

PPS- I will reiterate that I think it's extremely bad for game RP when people plan out OOC plotlines out of game and discuss them with other involved parties. It's bad for the game, excludes lots of players, and is basically cheating. Yes, I'm looking at you, IRC-junkies.

PPPS- Terran has, I think, maybe 3 or 4 Astroists and like 10 or 15 Triunists. Not evenly split. Astroism is a constantly threatened minority in Terran that has to actively defend itself to stay alive.

[vonGenf]

Would expanding SA influence make things more fun for me? Not really.

It does for me. It does for me because it's hard though, so I'm glad we have opponents. I hope it's fun for you too! But many people in SA are having fun, and nothing forces them to stay in if they aren't.

Propagandizing on the forum about how SA is breaking the game for you isn't going to convince me to change the way my character is acting. Now, that would be boring. OOC is boring. You want RP? RP happens IC. And if, with your RP and your character, you manage to defeat SA, then I'll be really happy about it, because it will have been fun.

[Perth]

And yes, since when is Terran not a pretty even split between Astroists and non-Astroists?

Uh, since the founding of Terran? There are 2 Astroists in Terran that I know about and that even bother speaking up about it from time to time. If there are others, they are not even vocal or public about it.

[Zakilevo]

Yes, I'm looking at you, IRC-junkies.

What?! WHAT!

Zaki hides under his bed.

[Ehndras]

What?! WHAT!

Zaki hides under his bed.

"Shhhh... Its okay, Zaki..." *pats*

Don't blame them! They don't know any better!

[Ehndras]

That logic makes absolutely no sense to me.

To pacify a species, you would eliminate all of its predators? Let it grow out of control until it depletes its prey and begins to cannibalize its own kind? Eventually their ecosystems fall apart and *MAYBE* give the chance for a lesser species to rise in their place, though in the process of eliminating its predators you happened to destroy the most successful examples of competitive vitality that existed at its side? Perhaps my reasoning works a little differently but that's not a very efficient progression of events.

You'd figure the time-tested idea of allowing species to propagate within a dynamic ecosystem would function better than trying to cull a given species' competition. That will just lead it to stagnate and become pacified. I don't want a pacified SA, a boring SA, or a dead SA, I want an SA as interesting as it is now but more dynamic in terms of continental politics. A more active SA. Everyone just sees a wall of SA banners, there is no clear distinction between Astroist nations beside Kabrinskia, and who are we kidding, that's entirely because of Allison. Why? Because SA is a sleeping bear. I'd like to see a threatened SA that opens its jaws and fights back against its enemies, that feels threatened and retaliates, not an SA that slowly amasses power and slumbers.

The two options are SA fights others, which has thankfully come true thanks to Aurvandil, or it fights itself. Once Aurvandil is gone, what will SA do? Fight the Lurian Empire? Lay on its haunches, lick its wounds, and wait?

I'm just trying to figure out what's going to happen when the SA can no longer band against Aurvandil because there's nothing left to band against. Its already proven that the SA can come together to fight someone, now I want to see what else it can do. If the only way you can do that is by poking it then by the Gods will I encourage people to poke the sleeping bear, hehe.

[Vellos]

That logic makes absolutely no sense to me.

To pacify a species, you would eliminate all of its predators? Let it grow out of control until it depletes its prey and begins to cannibalize its own kind? Eventually their ecosystems fall apart and *MAYBE* give the chance for a lesser species to rise in their place, though in the process of eliminating its predators you happened to destroy the most successful examples of competitive vitality that existed at its side? Perhaps my reasoning works a little differently but that's not a very efficient progression of events.

You'd figure the time-tested idea of allowing species to propagate within a dynamic ecosystem would function better than trying to cull a given species' competition. That will just lead it to stagnate and become pacified. I don't want a pacified SA, a boring SA, or a dead SA, I want an SA as interesting as it is now but more dynamic in terms of continental politics. A more active SA. Everyone just sees a wall of SA banners, there is no clear distinction between Astroist nations beside Kabrinskia, and who are we kidding, that's entirely because of Allison. Why? Because SA is a sleeping bear. I'd like to see a threatened SA that opens its jaws and fights back against its enemies, that feels threatened and retaliates, not an SA that slowly amasses power and slumbers.

The two options are SA fights others, which has thankfully come true thanks to Aurvandil, or it fights itself. Once Aurvandil is gone, what will SA do? Fight the Lurian Empire? Lay on its haunches, lick its wounds, and wait?

I'm just trying to figure out what's going to happen when the SA can no longer band against Aurvandil because there's nothing left to band against. Its already proven that the SA can come together to fight someone, now I want to see what else it can do. If the only way you can do that is by poking it then by the Gods will I encourage people to poke the sleeping bear, hehe.

If you want to see SA have more complicated politics, then join SA. I'm serious. The only thing keeping SA from eating itself is that there are still radically anti-SA people out there: in Asylon, in the Moot, in the Lurias, in the Orvandeux.

I do believe predators should wipe out the other species. I don't want everyone to survive and organisms to prosper. I want one to kill all the rest, then starve, and have a totally new order rise in its place. IMHO, it's the same problem on Atamara– the Cagilan bloc would break apart if it was the only thing there was. But as long as non-Cagilans are strategically meaningful, they have strong enough cohesion to stick together. So the Cagilans need to win (I say this as a long time, though on-and-off again, player in Eston).

[Chenier]

That logic makes absolutely no sense to me.

To pacify a species, you would eliminate all of its predators? Let it grow out of control until it depletes its prey and begins to cannibalize its own kind? Eventually their ecosystems fall apart and *MAYBE* give the chance for a lesser species to rise in their place, though in the process of eliminating its predators you happened to destroy the most successful examples of competitive vitality that existed at its side? Perhaps my reasoning works a little differently but that's not a very efficient progression of events.

You'd figure the time-tested idea of allowing species to propagate within a dynamic ecosystem would function better than trying to cull a given species' competition. That will just lead it to stagnate and become pacified. I don't want a pacified SA, a boring SA, or a dead SA, I want an SA as interesting as it is now but more dynamic in terms of continental politics. A more active SA. Everyone just sees a wall of SA banners, there is no clear distinction between Astroist nations beside Kabrinskia, and who are we kidding, that's entirely because of Allison. Why? Because SA is a sleeping bear. I'd like to see a threatened SA that opens its jaws and fights back against its enemies, that feels threatened and retaliates, not an SA that slowly amasses power and slumbers.

The two options are SA fights others, which has thankfully come true thanks to Aurvandil, or it fights itself. Once Aurvandil is gone, what will SA do? Fight the Lurian Empire? Lay on its haunches, lick its wounds, and wait?

I'm just trying to figure out what's going to happen when the SA can no longer band against Aurvandil because there's nothing left to band against. Its already proven that the SA can come together to fight someone, now I want to see what else it can do. If the only way you can do that is by poking it then by the Gods will I encourage people to poke the sleeping bear, hehe.

To get rid of a species, getting rid of its FOOD sure could work. And this would be a better analogy. There are no predators to SA, just prey.

In agricultural pest management, this is done. If you get too much of a pest for some crop, then it's usually a good idea to change crops for a few years to starve the larvae out.

[Vellos]

To get rid of a species, getting rid of its FOOD sure could work. And this would be a better analogy. There are no predators to SA, just prey.

In agricultural pest management, this is done. If you get too much of a pest for some crop, then it's usually a good idea to change crops for a few years to starve the larvae out.

Thank you for a better analogy than I gave.

We need to kill the SA-food (anti-SA radicals) and let SA start to eat itself.

[Ehndras]

Not seeing SA so much as a parasite and more as a predator who I'd like to see become more... Vicious.