Kabrinskia, Astrum, and other such stuff of the North Western Astroist states.

[Penchant]

Amen to what he said.

actually, it's more like 40% are SA-just sayin.

[Ehndras]

Thank you.

[Vellos]

What you're saying is that in order for the North to change, the rest of the continent would have to stagnate. This is flawed thinking for a couple of reasons.

First of all other islands have seen continent-wide stagnation with no natural recovery. The East Continent was so peaceful at one point that GMs had to coerce it's rulers into wars via threats of lightning bolts. The Colonies as far as I can tell is also in a sorry state, with only 3 realms holding any real power with no non-contrived conflict forseeable between them. So eliminating all destabilizing elements doesn't necessarily bring around a natural revival afterwards... instead it creates situations where leaders have to make up contrived reasons for war, sometimes under duress. It essentially poses the same problem that North has now, just on an island wide scale.

Secondly you (or someone else) previously mentioned that only 20% of Dwilight's characters are in the Aristocracies. So what you're calling for, is for 80% of the characters to stop their action so that the other 20% can get on with theirs. This doesn't make sense from a practical stand point, because it would be harder to organise the 80% than it would be to organise the 20%.

You're right in principle. I remember the long peace on EC. It wasn't fun.

But that won't happen in Astroism. The reason is simple. EC had nothing to work for. The big realms were as big as they could get. They didn't need new conflicts.

Religiously connected realms need those conflicts. Do you really think there are no systematic differences in Occidental and Oriental Astroism? Then why is there an entire guild specially for Occidental Astroism? Do you really think that, left to their own devices, Astroist realms aren't going to compete over control of the church and dominance within it? And do you really think that won't lead to bloodshed?

If so, you're naive. Inter-church violence has only been prevented (insofar as it has been prevented– which is not as completely as some folks seem to think) thus far by by rigorous efforts by people who want to keep SA united. Why do they want to keep it united?

Aurvandil.

Oh, and Aurvandil.

There's also Aurvandil.

Then there was Falkirk, but still Aurvandil.

There are other reasons of course but, frankly, I know at least 2 current SA elders (not counting Hireshmont) are actively "playing nice" with people they'd love to be feuding with because they don't believe they can afford to leave Aurvandil unchecked. No doubt other folks see boogiemen other places.

The point is– SA dominance is not like the long peace of EC, because the long peace of EC didn't leave anything to fight about. It was a political war with a political victory, and it was total. A total political victory of SA still leaves the entire political squabble about who controls the religion unsettled. And, as Tim mentioned, schisms are going to be added eventually. SA will split not long after that.

[Chenier]

You mean to say that the lurias couldn't defeat Morek and corsanctum? i think they could if they ever stopped fighting one another and actually went to war with someone and a competent general. I think Aurvandil shouldn't be counted down and out either. There is a long way between the two but still i think 1v1 no astroist could survive us.

Hell no! They couldn't defeat a starved-out D'Hara with a surprise attack, how on earth could they ever defeat Corsanctum, let alone Morek?

What you're saying is that in order for the North to change, the rest of the continent would have to stagnate. This is flawed thinking for a couple of reasons.

No. What I am saying is that for the North to change, the NORTH needs to stagnate. There are many blocs and un-aligned realms south of the theocracies, they can keep each other busy without offering themselves as targets for the northerners.

You're all wrong, of course.

The greatest threat to SA is my free time.

Because when I have enough of it, I will be coding up religious schisms.

So SA vs SA, in other words? Which is what others have said, the greatest threat to SA is SA itself.

And I wouldn't put much faith in any Allison-led schism. She has too many enemies within the church and outside of it, everyone would probably be all too happy to gank on her. Allison's main strength is all the moderates that serve as a buffer around her, that don't really care or even like her and wouldn't join in on her crazy projects, but would come to her defense if she were persecuted by an outside faction. If she breaks her ties with all of these people, she becomes vulnerable.

From where I stand, it wouldn't be in Allison's best interests to split up the church.

[Indirik]

Allison is rapidly losing her support within the church, and she knows it. The current elders are not willing to allow her to run rampant. She has lost power. And she's not likely to get it back. That's why it *is* in her best interests to separate from the church. By starting a new church, she can be the one in control. And that's what it's all about.

But she can't do that up north. She has given the prophet her oath that she won't start a new church, and he's not likely to release her from that. If she starts a new church in any of the theocracies it will soon get crushed. That's why she's moving south.

[dustole]

The Prophet did just release me from my oaths. 

[Indirik]

Well, color me surprised.

[T Strike]

Well, color me surprised.

Haha owned

[Indirik]

Well played, Mathurin. Clever phrasing. Gotta love how different people see different interpretations in the same, short sentence.

[Peri]

Well played, Mathurin. Clever phrasing. Gotta love how different people see different interpretations in the same, short sentence.

pastepastepaste

[Vellos]

The Prophet did just release me from my oaths.

If by calling you an apostate you think that's a release, you've been eating a bit too much Bloodmoon fruit.

[vonGenf]

If by calling you an apostate you think that's a release, you've been eating a bit too much Bloodmoon fruit.

"The act of your leaving Sanguis Astroism (...) would release you from the oaths you have made to the Church."

"-But, Lady Allison, are you not an apostate?

-The Prophet himself said that I was released from any oath I made! He said I was free to go!

-Indeed the Prophet said so, it must be right."

[Vellos]

You're free to go: as an apostate without any religious clout or authority, having broken all ties never to return. By doing so, you have implicitly already violated your oaths as a Luminary and a priestess– maybe some other oath is released, but you're an oath-breaker one way or another.

[T Strike]

So basically, she is being "banned" from SA

[Vellos]

So basically, she is being "banned" from SA

If she leaves, the Elders will be viewing it as a ban. Naturally we can't actually ban a priest on our own.