Southern War of Nobility (Civil war in Madina)

[Jens Namtrah]

I think it was that Jens says he is a Lord, but nobody in Madina has seen any evidence of it. He was a Lord on another continent, not Dwilight. It stands to reason that the histories of other lands have not yet reached Dwilight (new land, etc) so we only have to go off collective memories - if five people arrive from Darka and all say that they used to be mercenaries, it's probably true. But when one noble says "well I was a Lord, so call me Lord", most of us just say "yeah, sure and I'm the Holy Lord Emperor of all Blobsville, a massive continent a long way away from here".

Jens' personality is certainly interesting, if not a little misplaced. If he does get that Lordship, he'll certainly seem a little similar to Halicos in demanding people use his title (I've scared a few new knights with that and I've had to beat it into the current one a bit, but I think it adds to the atmosphere). I'd say keep it up, it's definitely got Jens noticed and it adds some flavour to it.

With regards to the Lord Admiral spouting orders, that's part of Madina's laws. In times of crisis command of everything military reverts to the Lord Admiral. Once we get Candiels back the state of emergency will be lifted and control will go back to the Dukes. Candiels Duke will likely want a few regions adding to his/her duchy, so will order their army to do that. Abbot probably wants the rest of Madina island to be added to his duchy. I'm not sure what Fionn will do, but if Halicos was Duke of The Tower, he'd be renting out The Tower's army to Abbot/Candiels to help add regions to their duchies :D

Guys, I don't mean to go on and on, but you really aren't getting the point.

1) Jens is a noble. Nobles don't lie. If he says he is a Lord, you believe he is a lord. It is a deathly insult to imply otherwise. You are fortunate it is Jens and not Ejner, or you would be dueling over it by now.

2) It doesn't matter which person is giving the orders - he is giving an order to a Noble, so he "requests that Sir Jens move his men to X and scout the enemy". He doesn't talk like a drill sergeant addressing a bunch of new recruits. This was true right up until the beginning of the last century, among officers, who were the modern vestige of noble gentlemen.

[Nathan]

1) Jens is a noble. Nobles don't lie. If he says he is a Lord, you believe he is a lord. It is a deathly insult to imply otherwise. You are fortunate it is Jens and not Ejner, or you would be dueling over it by now.

Then you, sir, are deluded :P Loads of characters lie, it's how you get into high up positions in most places. Nobles lie about everything, ranging from slight stretching of the truth (saying they were a Lord of a region when in fact they lived there for a long time) or to blatant lies (realm X has enough troops to destroy realm Y within a day). It's just how things work. If Jens doesn't lie, then that's cool, plenty of people don't lie. Just don't expect people not to be sceptical when a foreigner comes in and starts demanding people call him a Lord. It's like me meeting you on the street and saying I'm head of marketing for Microsoft's UK arm. You've never met me, you have no reason to believe me and something like that is quite sceptical. Some people might believe Jens, but a lot of us don't.

2) It doesn't matter which person is giving the orders - he is giving an order to a Noble, so he "requests that Sir Jens move his men to X and scout the enemy". He doesn't talk like a drill sergeant addressing a bunch of new recruits. This was true right up until the beginning of the last century, among officers, who were the modern vestige of noble gentlemen.

Then ignore them, simple. Orders are simply suggestions on red paper. If you don't want to follow them, make up some RP excuse why you couldn't follow them. This is the RP island, so use your RP skills. I think Halicos has followed about 50% of the orders given out since he's been in Madina (3 and a half years), but excuses can always be found ranging from lies (see above) to actual excuses. Sometimes people don't believe them, but if you have something credible with a little bit of possible evidence then people will usually believe it.

However there are obviously some things that can't be explained away easily, like attacking a city on your own ;)

[Jens Namtrah]

Then you, sir, are deluded :P Loads of characters lie, it's how you get into high up positions in most places. Nobles lie about everything, ranging from slight stretching of the truth (saying they were a Lord of a region when in fact they lived there for a long time) or to blatant lies (realm X has enough troops to destroy realm Y within a day). It's just how things work. If Jens doesn't lie, then that's cool, plenty of people don't lie. Just don't expect people not to be sceptical when a foreigner comes in and starts demanding people call him a Lord. It's like me meeting you on the street and saying I'm head of marketing for Microsoft's UK arm. You've never met me, you have no reason to believe me and something like that is quite sceptical. Some people might believe Jens, but a lot of us don't.

Then ignore them, simple. Orders are simply suggestions on red paper. If you don't want to follow them, make up some RP excuse why you couldn't follow them. This is the RP island, so use your RP skills. I think Halicos has followed about 50% of the orders given out since he's been in Madina (3 and a half years), but excuses can always be found ranging from lies (see above) to actual excuses. Sometimes people don't believe them, but if you have something credible with a little bit of possible evidence then people will usually believe it.

However there are obviously some things that can't be explained away easily, like attacking a city on your own ;)

*sigh*

On the surface,  Nobles don't lie. To openly imply otherwise is an insult.

It seems that I was right, that no one in the realm actually reads anything. The attack I did was under orders, as was repeatedly explained to the entire realm.  The ordering about I'm referring to had nothing to do with Luan.

It is EXCRUCIATINGLY dull to have to keep repeating myself like this, only to find that the reason for it is that the people I'm having a discussion with are too busy writing their answers to actually read what I'm writing.

Thank you for helping me decide whether or not to stay in Madina.

[Sabrier]

For those of us not in Madina, could we perhaps be given a better idea of what's going on by seeing an example of "drill sergeant" orders?

[Nathan]

The attack I did was under orders, as was repeatedly explained to the entire realm.

Hmm, I must have missed that. Halicos was off at the tournament recently so I skipped a lot of letters for time, that must have been one of them >.<

For those of us not in Madina, could we perhaps be given a better idea of what's going on by seeing an example of "drill sergeant" orders?

Last orders I got from the military are:

Orders from Luan Agenor   (3 days, 5 hours ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (17 recipients)
All citizens, knight and Lords, rally in the towers!

Luan Agenor
Lord Admiral of Madina, Baron of Lugagun

I'm sure Jens can give a better example though as he probably has one in mind. The same orders did come in 3 days & 7 hours, and 3 days & 13 hours ago, which looking back at it seems a little much. Like I said above, I must have missed those. Quite scary actually, those orders really don't seem familiar and I definitely wouldn't have put them down as being sent 3 times :S

[De-Legro]

*sigh*

On the surface,  Nobles don't lie. To openly imply otherwise is an insult.

What a hopelessly romantic opinion of noble etiquette. This seems more in line with renaissance and latter thinking then the truth regarding interactions between medieval nobles.

[Phellan]

Hmm, I must have missed that. Halicos was off at the tournament recently so I skipped a lot of letters for time, that must have been one of them >.<

No, Luan sent him private orders to head into Candiels - which he didn't inform the Council about.   Vallyn got pretty irate with Jens, but when Jens informed him (and Luan as well) that the orders were from Luan. . .

Well, Vallyn tore a strip out of Luan in a very pleasantly worded reply that implied he was an idiot if he couldn't deduce that their forces were out in the Field.  I don't think I got a reply to it (not that I expected one).

So, he's right - bad case of mismanagement on the Governments part.   No blame there, all ours. (erm, Luans? :D haha).

As for "military drill-sergeant style" orders - You don't have to follow orders, that simple.  Its always been that way.    Usually for orders I give some nice title-style start but then drop into my normal order giving after that.   

Mostly I drop nice wishy-washy ways of telling people what to do because half the time they lose the message.

"I would be most grateful if a noble could send a scout and report back on Lugagun to the army"

Or:

"Scout Lugagun and report to the army."

Sure, ones more SMA and polite - but given how active over half the nobles are, the former is MUCH less likely to get an answer.

Personal messages, Realm wide address - those will get lots of fancy wording and 15 or 20min of typing put into them.

[JPierreD]

What a hopelessly romantic opinion of noble etiquette. This seems more in line with renaissance and latter thinking then the truth regarding interactions between medieval nobles.

Seems like his place is hardly Madina, land of /pirates/. He needs a place in where explicit liars and dishonorable people are scowled at, a more chivarly-oriented realm. I know the current Luria Nova is one of these (where Tarajist Balewind was basically told "shut up and stop your ignoble brag or you'll get deported", but in an even less flattering way), but I'm sure there are more realms like that out there.

[Perth]

Terran is a generally very pleasant and fairly active realm to go to, usually with good opportunities for advancement.

Though if you can find a realm that will automatically start calling people titles they don't actually have, please let me know lol.

[Jens Namtrah]

It's really simple, guys. I don't understand why you are having so much trouble with this.

If I arrive and tell you I'm a Lord, and you say I'm not, then you are calling me a liar.

In which case, I hope your sword arm is strong and steady.

If I thought Vallyn was the type of character who wouldn't make excuses to avoid a duel, Jens would have changed class and challenged him already.

[Jens Namtrah]

No, Luan sent him private orders to head into Candiels - which he didn't inform the Council about.   Vallyn got pretty irate with Jens, but when Jens informed him (and Luan as well) that the orders were from Luan. . .

Well, Vallyn tore a strip out of Luan in a very pleasantly worded reply that implied he was an idiot if he couldn't deduce that their forces were out in the Field.  I don't think I got a reply to it (not that I expected one).

which you did in private to Luan/or the council.

you publicly humiliated Jens, and then couldn't bother to to even drop him a note about it (nevermind let the realm know Jens was not at fault) when you were corrected on the matter. And you repeatedly infer that he is lying about being a lord.

so why are you having trouble figuring out what the issue is?

[Perth]

If I arrive and tell you I'm a Lord, and you say I'm not, then you are calling me a liar.

Or just crazy.

Or goofy as hell.

I don't know, by your logic everyone should be allowed to prance around calling themselves the King and anyone who says otherwise deserves a sword in the belly.

[Jens Namtrah]

I wonder if you can tell the difference between these two statements?

I am an architect.

I am the Third Son of the Moon King.

[fodder]

1) Jens is a noble. Nobles don't lie. If he says he is a Lord, you believe he is a lord. It is a deathly insult to imply otherwise. You are fortunate it is Jens and not Ejner, or you would be dueling over it by now.

2) It doesn't matter which person is giving the orders - he is giving an order to a Noble, so he "requests that Sir Jens move his men to X and scout the enemy". He doesn't talk like a drill sergeant addressing a bunch of new recruits. This was true right up until the beginning of the last century, among officers, who were the modern vestige of noble gentlemen.

1) if your character doesn't say lord in sig, he's not a lord.... (otherwise the whole realm would be kings and queens) something about RP not trumping game mechanics?
2) madina didn't use to do that.


my character was royal in madina, so if i stick another one in madina you would think it should be royal.. but of course it can't be, because they don't exist in the same realm at the same time... hmmm. some sort of family tree (inside the game that is...) would be interesting

[Phellan]

It's really simple, guys. I don't understand why you are having so much trouble with this.

If I arrive and tell you I'm a Lord, and you say I'm not, then you are calling me a liar.

In which case, I hope your sword arm is strong and steady.

If I thought Vallyn was the type of character who wouldn't make excuses to avoid a duel, Jens would have changed class and challenged him already.

Vallyn's response is simple - you were banned and stripped of your title.  You WERE a Lord, but I highly doubt they "let" you keep it after banning you.

We're also following game mechanics as well - you were a Lord, yes.   Now you are a Knight.   There is no error in calling you a Knight, as that is clearly your current rank.

As for Vallyn - on the last assault in Candiels he dueled their Marshal to the Death, he's a warrior through and through.    He, like most in Madina who have fought their share of battles and duels - though on your claim he might balk a a death duel and accept your grievance as worthy of a duel to surrender.  Kill a traitor and a rebel, sure.   But a young Madinan Noble?  Hmph.