Southern War of Nobility (Civil war in Madina)

[Bedwyr]

I think the Véinsørmoot should charge King Koli with war crimes in a couple of game years. Call up a few of the Barcans who were there as witnesses, invite Koli (alone) to Paisley if he wishes to defend himself and so forth. The less than bright characters can talk of eradicating the Zuma - hah! - but I figure this would be far more entertaining.

Koli would refuse, as the Veinsormoot has no authority over him.  Establishing guilt is pointless as he freely admits it.

I'd give SA a bigger chance of spreading to the southwest than TMP spreading anywhere beyond the southeast. As Matt's stated above, TMP's little more than a justification for imperial expansion.

I've never stated that in any way, shape, or form.  I said tMP can be used to justify wars to increase overall civilization.  Just like every other religion can.  That doesn't mean the religion is solely about imperial expansion.

Koli doesn't care in the slightest about spreading Lurian political control anywhere.  He's not even terribly happy about being King of Pian en Luries in the first place.  He wants to destroy D'hara because they (in his mind) took his father away from him and thus is responsible for a great deal of the difficulties he had in his early life.

Still, lets face it, its a new religion that could have quite a different "message" by the time its in any position to spread beyond the Lurian realms. I may have some prejudice as to the reason for its existance, but my character's never so much as heard of the religion. The only southeasterners who've went west, departed before the religion was even founded. More is known of CB and SA than TMP (not saying much), but that itself could work to the religion's benefit as there's no stigma attached to the latter. Blatant expansionism might be the call of the day, but that doesn't mean that has to be the story IC, at least for the time being. "We're peace loving hippies" could just as easily be believable in the beginning and provide the religion with a foothold before any Lurian Invasion.

Again, tMP has no interest in expansionism.  I haven't decided whether to make this official or leave it as unofficial, but it favours smaller realms where possible.

tMP is not about peace loving hippies, either.  It just wants to reorient the fighting toward a more useful front.

I don't mind IC disinformation in the least, but I would prefer if people did not OOC say I've said things that I haven't or make statements that are really not even close to true about my ventures.

[De-Legro]

I think the Véinsørmoot should charge King Koli with war crimes in a couple of game years. Call up a few of the Barcans who were there as witnesses, invite Koli (alone) to Paisley if he wishes to defend himself and so forth. The less than bright characters can talk of eradicating the Zuma - hah! - but I figure this would be far more entertaining.

I'd give SA a bigger chance of spreading to the southwest than TMP spreading anywhere beyond the southeast. As Matt's stated above, TMP's little more than a justification for imperial expansion. Still, lets face it, its a new religion that could have quite a different "message" by the time its in any position to spread beyond the Lurian realms. I may have some prejudice as to the reason for its existance, but my character's never so much as heard of the religion. The only southeasterners who've went west, departed before the religion was even founded. More is known of CB and SA than TMP (not saying much), but that itself could work to the religion's benefit as there's no stigma attached to the latter. Blatant expansionism might be the call of the day, but that doesn't mean that has to be the story IC, at least for the time being. "We're peace loving hippies" could just as easily be believable in the beginning and provide the religion with a foothold before any Lurian Invasion.

Comprehension fail for the win. Its generally best not to try and shoe horn innocent statements that something COULD be used on a certain way as proof that it WILL be.

[Geronus]

Please don't confuse me with De-Legro.  I have never claimed that the Manifest Path won't be used to justify wars on the basis of better caretakers of civilization.  That's official policy, as anyone can see on the wiki.

Perish the thought! However, I think it would be fair to observe that the two of you are usually marching in lockstep when it comes to tMP. It's unusual to see one of you undercut the other's arguments on that subject.

[DoctorHarte]

Yip. Nothing has happened on the southern front. Isn't that the story of the war from the start? Sure, there's been a few tragic attempts at attacking from one side or the other, but they've been forgettable. Mainly because who wants to remember such disasters as the last attack on the Tower or Madina's top-notch strategy? Get back to me when you've done something, Harte! Which is harsh, I'll admit, and said (or typed) without the intention to insult. More a "get a move on" message. Suits your neighbours that you don't since we've picked up some of your bored nobles already and will possibly pick up a few more as things drag on, but that's an IC perspective. OOCly, it has to be boring as hell sitting in two cities (or a city and a stronghold) with little enough to do.

How do you keep yourself logging in?

As Royal Purser of Aurvandil, I do have to keep up with the food we have and establish trade agreements with other realms, but that takes little time. Eventually we will probably be the aggressors against Madina since we have a large military difference right now. But when that time is, I have no idea.. I mostly log on for Callandor II in Ohnar West or Katrina in Fronen.

[Bedwyr]

Perish the thought! However, I think it would be fair to observe that the two of you are usually marching in lockstep when it comes to tMP. It's unusual to see one of you undercut the other's arguments on that subject.

(shrugs) De-Legro's position is more indicative of what tMP's "should" be were Koli to fully live up to its ideals, and generally speaks with regards to what I personally consider the "propaganda" face of the religion.  And...

As Koli's a young, often bitter, frequently uncertain man who never wanted responsibility like this, is haunted by the horrors he has committed, desperate for atonement, terrified by what he sees as the beginning of Ragnorak, frustrated at the endless civil strife in Luria, burning for revenge, hopeful for the future he thinks he can bring, arrogant, cripplingly worried that he's the wrong man for all this, proud of his accomplishments, worried that its a house of cards, scared spitless by the power of what he's trying to confront, determined that it must be, trying to convince himself that it can be, and balancing all his often conflicting responsibilities...Consistency is not a virtue he possesses in any great degree.

So, Koli preaches that war between humans should only be a last resort...Then slips in a clause into the writings to allow him to justify conquering D'hara.  Then he tries to convince himself that uniting the island against the Abominations would be easier with the Veinsormoot on his side...But then Port Nebel revolts and his uncle is lynched and he loses control of his rage.  Then he takes back control, and spends his time trying to build up Luria...Then people there try to start another civil war and he tears at his hair and dreams of leaving it all behind and building the realm he always wanted on the Isles.  But then he sees a way to turn the almost-civil-war to a way to cement the power of the Manifest Path further...

You get the idea.  Like every good Prophet, you can probably cite speeches from Koli to support several sides of most arguments and be quite correct.

[Vellos]

But then Port Nebel revolts and his uncle is lynched and he loses control of his rage. 

This perplexes me.  When did this happen? Did some D'Haran send an RP of Uncle Bedwyr starving to death? I've seen you reference it quite a few times, but have never been clear, even OOCly, what the story is.

[Bedwyr]

This perplexes me.  When did this happen? Did some D'Haran send an RP of Uncle Bedwyr starving to death? I've seen you reference it quite a few times, but have never been clear, even OOCly, what the story is.

Koli's mother was a minor noble from D'hara, and I've mentioned at various times that Koli's mother's family has a number of positions in D'hara as local officials.  When Port Nebel revolted, I rolled a few dice to determine what outcome that might have for that family.  I figure the extended family has officials across the island, and in these revolts a good percentage (though not all) of the officials get lynched before they can flee.

Most of that family, Koli would have not cared in the slightest about.  They did not precisely make his life easy, as while his mother swears up and down that before he left Colin Bedwyr totally married her in a private ceremony, and Colin was a private enough man that this is indeed possible, though unlikely, most of the family...Did not really believe it, and consequently she and Koli were barely tolerated, sometimes, by some of them, until of course he managed to make good in PeL.  Once that happened, he resettled some of the family he cared about in Askileon and other parts of Luria (and sent a few to Atamara or the Far East as they hated Dwilight), but some had found good positions and decided to stay in D'hara.  One of them was an uncle who Koli was quite fond of, and was lynched.

Or, in other words, the dice indicated that one of the few family members Koli cared about was in Port Nebel, and then further indicated that he did not flee in time.

[Carna]

Yeah. My post wasn't meant to be taken as fact or gospel, merely speculation at how it could be played or intrepreted. Frankly, its your call. Win or lose. Duh.

I've had nobles in similar situations Harte, most recently with my Knight in Wayburg (Atamara) who I eventually paused as sitting in the city day in and day out waiting for Suville aggression got tedious to the point where I reactivated my adventurer. 'Course, things kicked off for Wayburg not too long ago, but I never unpaused. My concern (well, that's overstating it somewhat) is that with the stalemate that's currently there, there's little reason to keep coming on, especially for those not Lords or Bankers or the likes. Becoming the aggressor is a solution to that, but becoming the aggressor for that reason alone probably isn't altogether wise. Other options exist. RP, duels, new guilds or other means of building up Aurvandil's (or Madina's) society is another solution and one I'd hope is being availed of. No one likes being a Knight who logs on to pay their men, maybe train them, then check their other characters or simply log back off. Retention is talked about now and then. Times like these have to have an effect on that.

[Chenier]

Koli's mother was a minor noble from D'hara, and I've mentioned at various times that Koli's mother's family has a number of positions in D'hara as local officials.  When Port Nebel revolted, I rolled a few dice to determine what outcome that might have for that family.  I figure the extended family has officials across the island, and in these revolts a good percentage (though not all) of the officials get lynched before they can flee.

Most of that family, Koli would have not cared in the slightest about.  They did not precisely make his life easy, as while his mother swears up and down that before he left Colin Bedwyr totally married her in a private ceremony, and Colin was a private enough man that this is indeed possible, though unlikely, most of the family...Did not really believe it, and consequently she and Koli were barely tolerated, sometimes, by some of them, until of course he managed to make good in PeL.  Once that happened, he resettled some of the family he cared about in Askileon and other parts of Luria (and sent a few to Atamara or the Far East as they hated Dwilight), but some had found good positions and decided to stay in D'hara.  One of them was an uncle who Koli was quite fond of, and was lynched.

Or, in other words, the dice indicated that one of the few family members Koli cared about was in Port Nebel, and then further indicated that he did not flee in time.

Sucks for him, had he done a better job at what he was supposed to do, perhaps the peasants wouldn't have lynched him.

[egamma]

Sucks for him, had he done a better job at what he was supposed to do, perhaps the peasants wouldn't have lynched him.

Zing!

[DoctorHarte]

Achemmm.

Hello, Madina  ;)

[Kinsey]

Why hello Aurvandil. come here often?

It's been oh so boring here until now!

[Geronus]

Why hello Aurvandil. come here often?

It's been oh so boring here until now!

Clearly they should visit more.

[Chenier]

They should just bring in some diplomats and try to buy out the tower.

[Geronus]

If the numbers say anything, it's that if Aurvandil ever does take the Tower, Madina will probably be overrun.