Realms named after characters

[Zakilevo]

If it is on the Wiki, you can use it IG. People do that all the time :p

You may believe things shouldn't be that simple, but it is that simple. So if you don't want people to know you shouldn't really post anything secret on the wiki.

[Chenier]

It is that simple. It's on the Wiki.

Indeed.

You COULD put a notice on the page, and state this is OOC info only. But you didn't.

And even if you did, it'd just be poor form to use the info, not against the rules.

[Indirik]

The whole "if it's on the wiki, it's public info" can be viewed as a necessary evil. There's no way to police it, so what's the point of making rules against it? The simple way to look at it is this: "if you don't want people to know, then don't tell them".

[Zakilevo]

The whole "if it's on the wiki, it's public info" can be viewed as a necessary evil. There's no way to police it, so what's the point of making rules against it? The simple way to look at it is this: "if you don't want people to know, then don't tell them".

Exactly what I've learned from my mistakes...

[Eldargard]

I get it now. It was not that they used different titles for the same geographical features. It was that the maps they drew mad it look like they considered some of Barca's lands to be a part of their kingdom. That makes more sense. It seems to me more like they considered some of their regions and some of Barca's regions to be a part of the same geographical region, but I like how the maps were used to build tension that encouraged war. Very cool.

Also, I think people over estimate how hard it can be to keep something a secret. As Vellos mentioned, news of a project like this would likely spread a bit. Unless Mendicant sat in a little locked room with no windows, drew the maps himself, immediately burned them and never told anyone about it, there is no reason the news might spread a bit. Aside from that, putting something on the wiki is like publishing a work. Unless it is marked OOC or is on a player page, I use all the information I reasonably can from the wiki. I do like how the founder of Aetheris Pyrism handled the religions wiki pages. He put a description on the top of each that describes who, in game, would likely have access to the information on that page. Seems like a good way to go in my view.

[Perth]

It's also very important to remember that it isn't even just that the maps labeled parts of Barca as part of their "lands" or whatever, that is part of it, sure. But it isn't as if the maps made Terran declare war or something. I stated they were SOME of the beginnings of distaste/dislike for Aurvandil in Terran.

Why? Because although their arrogance is famed throughout BM now, they actually aren't the only arrogant ones. Terran sees itself as the dominate political, military, and cultural force in the Maroccidens. Terran built the 'Moot, it forged the political identity of the Maroccidental Republics, it founded Barca, Terran is the wellspring of civilization in the Maroccidens. When Aurvandil comes with such a foreign culture, foreign naming conventions, odd codes of honor/battle, an alien political system, weird views on religion, etc. it made Terran uneasy. The renaming of prominent areas of the Maroccidens, Madina Isle, the Candiels Peninsula, etc. is the perfect example of the culmination of all these things. Terran was miffed, and as Aurvandil became stronger and stronger, it felt further and further threatened by these foreign people with their funny names, strange beliefs, and weird customs.

Yeah, from and OOC/Modern perspective it's silliness. But from a BM perspective I think it is one of the more beautifully orchestrated medieval reactions I've been able to be a part of. The Aurvandil v. Terran/Moot conflict is not the typical BM conflict. It isn't just about land, or boredom, or just because thats the thing to do. It wasn't even on the flat level of "hey those guys aren't X religion! get 'em!" Rather, it was a huge culmination of animosity toward a foreign culture/peoples plus the growing feeling of being threatened by these foreigners as they grew in number and military power that was easily sparked into conflict when the inevitable border dispute or diplomatic issue arose.

It's awesome. It's so medieval. It's so Dwilight.

----

As far as the availability of the maps goes, for as long I've been her its always been a "if its on the wiki consider it public knowledge" policy. Also, though Kale initially saw the maps from Hireshmont, I believe, I do know they circulated through the Dwilight University once or twice as well.

[Stabbity]

Himourastan needs to happen. Just saying.

[Chenier]

Terran sees itself as the dominate political, military, and cultural force in the Maroccidens. Terran built the 'Moot, it forged the political identity of the Maroccidental Republics, it founded Barca, Terran is the wellspring of civilization in the Maroccidens.

D'Hara seems to remember a role in all of that. D'Haran gold wasn't only used by D'Harans, after all.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Apasyria is going to happen now

[Perth]

D'Hara seems to remember a role in all of that. D'Haran gold wasn't only used by D'Harans, after all.

Of course. 

[Zakilevo]

When will Lapallanchia happen?

[Vellos]

What you've done there is gone "I didn't have the information, so I roleplayed my character stealing it" you know, as if it works that way, which it doesn't. Your adventurer (Of all things) wouldn't have just walked in and taken it, like we leave it lying around and let peasants take liberties in the Palais Haut-Souverains and rifle through government papers, plans and designs in the heart of Aurvandilan government. That's just nonsense.

Actually, it's completely legitimate for a player-character to roleplay stealing OOCly public information from a minor NPC. It doesn't have to be pre-plotted out in some perfectly-orchestrated RP. If it's consistent with either player's established RP, then it's in fine form for RP (though I note as many others have that we're arguing here, not about game rules, but about "good RP," a rather nebulous concept). I don't have to get your consent to RP doing something to a minor, NPC character.

Mendicant never asked how you got the maps, because you never mentioned it to him,

False, I did, several times. It was in our long message conversation a loooong time ago that got sidetracked in Mendicant being angry that I stated that Aurvandil came into existence by violence. Mendicant then sent Hireshmont several pages of messages about how Aurvandil was actually quite peace loving (then attacked Barca a few days later).

I'm pretty certain Terran would have no links whatsoever to academia in Aurvandil nor even the cultural, intellectual and noble elite in Aurvandil, who all hold a strong distaste for Terran and Terran similarly holds a strong distaste of Aurvandil, as well as a great maw of ignorance to the Orvandeaux civilisation that portrays their entire lack of understanding of anything Orvandeaux.

You do NOT get to speak for all nobles and intellectual or cultural elites of a realm. Aurvandil is not yours on an OOC level. Also, you assume Terran is ignorant of Orvandeaux culture– we're really not. Maybe once upon a time, but not so much anymore. Terran isn't ignorant of Aurvandil's culture, it just wants to kill Aurvandil's culture.

But more importantly, yes, Hireshmont does have connections in Candiels. I will note again that I did also receive the map via nobles elsewhere as well (though that's far from necessary). And, furthermore, medieval craftsmen were frequently connected by guilds. The well-established role of the Dwilight University in Dwilight of coordinating intellectual disciplines further suggests the presence of guilds. Hireshmont's role as the leading patron of cartography and an elder in the University in the continent would suggest that, yes, he probably has connections with Aurvandil's royal archives. Literate people who can manage royal archives are very rare in the middle ages (especially in secular realms like Aurvandil). The number of people who could handle such a task in a secular, hyper-militaristic realm consisting of a few tens of thousands of people can probably be counted on fingers and toes. Remove a few who may have whatever personal baggage, and the pool is very small. And very likely to be networked internationally (especially if their trade is cartography, specifically).

If we're to go by that example, Mendicant could similarly deploy peasants to wander into the heart of Terran government and help themselves to whatever paperwork and state business they feel like. Except we realise that'd just be silly on the face of it. As I said, I'm not too bothered about you knowing IC, but then to say a peasant wandered in and stole the maps... well it's just insulting on an OOC level to roleplay such an extreme case of incompetence, failure and stupidity. You may as roleplay all the guards being paraplegics and the government of Aurvandil being a horde of the mentally disabled, and your wily adventurer tricking them all and physically besting the champions of Aurvandil.

Then again as I recall you do like to roleplay Aurvandil like that.

Yes, if you can find a literate adventurer (finding one with a plausible reason for that was tough, let me tell you), you could certainly send him or her to Chateau Saffalore to steal an already publicly available document. That would be absolutely and obviously fine.

I'm not sure where you get the rest from– I don't know of anybody who has been roleplaying Aurvandil as mentally disabled or militarily weak. The only instance I can think of is the adventurer who pooped in Mendicant's bed; but that was rather a different situation.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Get back on topic people.

[Woelfy]

Guiland! Someday....

[Kwanstein]

As far as those realms named after characters on Dwilight go, it's justifiable. Dwilight was a new land with no prior culture or history for the colonists to base their realm names on. In real life when colonists and explorers found themselves in similar predicaments many of them responded by doing exactly what character's like Allison Kabrinskia did. You'll find a myriad of new world colonies named after individuals, such as Columbia (which is even phonetically similar to Kabrinskia).

In fact I'd go so far to say that naming realms after people is more historically justifiable than the standard fare of realm names which are essentially just arbitrary fantasy-sounding words. How exactly are names like Terran* or Aurvandil* more realistic than Kabrinskia? Terran is the Latin name for Earth, which doesn't make sense when applied to a realm and according to google, Aurvandil is an ancient Norse word for a specific star, which again doesn't make sense from a historical perspective (how many real life kingdoms were named after stars?)

*Note that I don't have a vendetta against Terran and Aurvandil (I think they sound cool), I just use them because they demonstrate my point.

If BM realms were to sound more realistic they would be named after the cultures that inhabit their general areas. There would be BM equivalents of England or France. Unfortunately such names are not possible, because BM varients of the Anglos and Franks don't exist. So in the end, chasing after realism in a game that does not support realism is pointless. Let there be realms named after people, Earth, stars, cities, whatever. In the end it makes no difference, they're there purely decoration anyhow.