Realms named after characters

[Anaris]

They weren't published at large, they were only ever published within the Aurvandilan University and Noblesse to be discussed and considered, which is why they had only three things on it and the rest unnamed. Of course since we had them up on the wiki everyone else assumed their characters would be in full possession of such knowledge..

Unless something on the Wiki is explicitly marked otherwise (or obviously OOC information, like descriptions of the layouts of game pages or how to get on IRC), it is by default considered to be public knowledge.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

How presumptuous.

[Anaris]

I would have thought it would at least require a suitable in character, roleplayed explanation on how your character gained the information. Rather than just have insta knowledge of anything placed on the wiki regardless of the context.

Or at least that is how I play Mendicant.

Such is generally considered Good Form, but it is not against the rules to use the information without providing such an explanation. (This is similar to the way information contained in RP messages is treated: even if your character merely thinks it, it is permissible for other characters to be in possession of that knowledge without any explicit explanation. It is, however, also permissible (and, at least by me, strongly encouraged) for any character who comes into possession of knowledge of this suspicious sort without clear provenance to be treated as at best insane, and at worst consorting with demons.)

In addition, how do you know that Vellos didn't roleplay such an explanation—within his realm, when he first presented the information there?

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Such is generally considered Good Form, but it is not against the rules to use the information without providing such an explanation. (This is similar to the way information contained in RP messages is treated: even if your character merely thinks it, it is permissible for other characters to be in possession of that knowledge without any explicit explanation. It is, however, also permissible (and, at least by me, strongly encouraged) for any character who comes into possession of knowledge of this suspicious sort without clear provenance to be treated as at best insane, and at worst consorting with demons.)

In addition, how do you know that Vellos didn't roleplay such an explanation—within his realm, when he first presented the information there?

I always go under the dynamic of "Within reason" as in my character can know things placed on the wiki, within reason, as to it's nature and availability and the likelihood of Mendicant having any means to have actually gained such information in the first place.

And I don't know that Vellos didn't roleplay an explanation, but the question is, would Vellos have really had any sort of realistic way of finding out in the first place, and is the roleplay sufficient to explain his proquirement of maps being privately distributed on an In Character level for the purpose of discussion? That would be something of a leap.

[Anaris]

I always go under the dynamic of "Within reason" as in my character can know things placed on the wiki, within reason, as to it's nature and availability and the likelihood of Mendicant having any means to have actually gained such information in the first place.

This is what I, personally, generally do too, and encourage others to do. I was simply clarifying what's permitted.

And I don't know that Vellos didn't roleplay an explanation, but the question is, would Vellos have really had any sort of realistic way of finding out in the first place, and is the roleplay sufficient to explain his proquirement of maps being privately distributed on an In Character level for the purpose of discussion? That would be something of a leap.

Dunno. Ask him.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

I'm not really that bothered about the whole thing if I'm honest, I was just commenting on them having grudge over some maps being privately discussed in Aurvandil and declaring it an Aurvandilan attempt to exercise political claim and dominion over Barcan territories.

Mendicant didn't make any real strides to keep the information hidden so I'm not too fussed about them touting it in character if they want. If they wish to make a fuss over a barely discussed and scarcely considered cartographic map they're welcome to.

[Anaris]

I'm not really that bothered about the whole thing if I'm honest, I was just commenting on them having grudge over some maps being privately discussed in Aurvandil and declaring it an Aurvandilan attempt to exercise political claim and dominion over Barcan territories.

Personally, I think it's rather amusing, even though generally I have little sympathy for Aurvandil.

I picture a Terran spy in Aurvandil's archives, pulling out a copy of the map, being shocked at the sheer audacity of it, and immediately running it back to his masters. Meanwhile, Mendicant and his cronies are looking at another copy of the map in some council chamber, discussing earnestly whether it makes sense, and ultimately just saying, "Nah, that's too silly even for us," and throwing it on the fire.

[vonGenf]

If they wish to make a fuss over a barely discussed and scarcely considered cartographic map they're welcome to.

Fusses are fun! I like a good fuss once in a while. There aren't enough truly important things to argue about in the game to afford to ignore the trivial ones.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Personally, I think it's rather amusing, even though generally I have little sympathy for Aurvandil.

I picture a Terran spy in Aurvandil's archives, pulling out a copy of the map, being shocked at the sheer audacity of it, and immediately running it back to his masters. Meanwhile, Mendicant and his cronies are looking at another copy of the map in some council chamber, discussing earnestly whether it makes sense, and ultimately just saying, "Nah, that's too silly even for us," and throwing it on the fire.

Close, the discussions were "How can we make this map any more ridiculous?" "How many territories can we name after our nobles before some one notices?"

I can just imagine Mendicant leaving a map suspiciously near Terran where we declare Chateau Saffalore the High Sovereign's hunting lodge just to see Terran rage.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Fusses are fun! I like a good fuss once in a while. There aren't enough truly important things to argue about in the game to afford to ignore the trivial ones.

And Aurvandil is very good at generating fuss over nothing.

Nobodies offended that Aurvandil had our Knight Hausos sharpen his sword on their Senate house, which to Aurvandil was the ultimate humiliation and most grievous repudiation of statehood a realm could ever suffer, but they were annoyed that Allomere mentally referred to their peasants as poorly dressed.

[Vellos]

Personally, I think it's rather amusing, even though generally I have little sympathy for Aurvandil.

I picture a Terran spy in Aurvandil's archives, pulling out a copy of the map, being shocked at the sheer audacity of it, and immediately running it back to his masters. Meanwhile, Mendicant and his cronies are looking at another copy of the map in some council chamber, discussing earnestly whether it makes sense, and ultimately just saying, "Nah, that's too silly even for us," and throwing it on the fire.

This is exactly what did happen. I found the link on the wiki so I deployed an adventurer to go to Candiels. He was supposed to send an RP but didn't; I wasted 50 coins on an adventurer who didn't even send the message he was supposed to (this was not the same adventurer who pooped in Mendicant's bed).

Furthermore, Hireshmont has a long-established roleplay of being cartographically obsessed– my OOC "Formal Geography of Dwilight" was an IC project of Hireshmont. Rival mapmakers must be killed on sight, obviously, so that he can exercise academic hegemony over cartographic references.

But more importantly to that, part of that longstanding RP is that Hireshmont actively maintains connections with the academia and cultural elite of minor nobility around the continent (those who remember Hireshmont's voyages around the continent know what I'm talking about).

As such, I had three separate IC means of gaining knowledge of these things:
1. I actually sent an adventurer to steal the physical piece of paper. He didn't RP like I wanted, so I dropped the "I stole your only copy and took a poop on Mendicontinent" route and went with "I got a copy somehow."
2. Hireshmont has a specific interest in maps. Cartography was not a common trade in Medieval times. Hireshmont's network would plausibly have a list of every major cartographer in the south– and Mendicant would be unlikely to hire some shmo with no references to handle the imperial map archives. As such, Hireshmont could plausibly claim (given his long involvement in cartographic projects) to have a connection, and a cordial one, to the cartographers themselves.
3. Hireshmont generally maintains ears around for cultural matters– and a large imperial cartographic project would be spoken of in elite circles
4. I should mention I was tipped off ICly by a miffed noble as well, but I'd already found out on the wiki, and thereby by the above methods. It's long enough ago it shouldn't matter. :P

Some of these items were explained to people with an interest in knowing, but, AFAIK, Mendicant never asked how we got the map. As I recall, he simply assumed we'd gone OOC and broken a rule (but I encourage the player to correct me if I'm remembering wrong).

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

What you've done there is gone "I didn't have the information, so I roleplayed my character stealing it" you know, as if it works that way, which it doesn't. Your adventurer (Of all things) wouldn't have just walked in and taken it, like we leave it lying around and let peasants take liberties in the Palais Haut-Souverains and rifle through government papers, plans and designs in the heart of Aurvandilan government. That's just nonsense.

Mendicant never asked how you got the maps, because you never mentioned it to him, he doesn't know you have the maps and doesn't believe you would have it anyway, 'cause we don't just let any old noble wander around private areas and fiddle with our paperwork, let alone peasants. It's the player (Me) who assumed you have and unless you gained it IC (Your roleplay of "I just got it 'cause it was lying around" notwithstanding), you did get it OOC. I'm pretty certain Terran would have no links whatsoever to academia in Aurvandil nor even the cultural, intellectual and noble elite in Aurvandil, who all hold a strong distaste for Terran and Terran similarly holds a strong distaste of Aurvandil, as well as a great maw of ignorance to the Orvandeaux civilisation that portrays their entire lack of understanding of anything Orvandeaux.

If we're to go by that example, Mendicant could similarly deploy peasants to wander into the heart of Terran government and help themselves to whatever paperwork and state business they feel like. Except we realise that'd just be silly on the face of it. As I said, I'm not too bothered about you knowing IC, but then to say a peasant wandered in and stole the maps... well it's just insulting on an OOC level to roleplay such an extreme case of incompetence, failure and stupidity. You may as roleplay all the guards being paraplegics and the government of Aurvandil being a horde of the mentally disabled, and your wily adventurer tricking them all and physically besting the champions of Aurvandil.

Then again as I recall you do like to roleplay Aurvandil like that.

[Solari]

If it's on the Wiki and it's presented in such a way that it isn't clear the knowledge is OOC-only, you can expect to see it used IC. End of debate.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

If it's on the Wiki and it's presented in such a way that it isn't clear the knowledge is OOC-only, you can expect to see it used IC. End of debate.

The debate was to show that it isn't as simple as that, and nor should it be that simple.

[Solari]

The debate was to show that it isn't as simple as that, and nor should it be that simple.

It is that simple. It's on the Wiki.