Stealth mode for unitless infiltraitors

[Anaris]

Which is stupid. He snuck in your tent and decides he will try to see if he is lucky when randomly stabbing the body instead of throat or head. It it's almost laughable ever he trying to call any infiltrator an assassin when history implies that all infils are idiots and can't ever actually kill someone.

No. You woke up. You had a weapon in your hand. He did not have the opportunity to just stab you through the eye when you slept.

In any case, the game never tries to call infiltrators assassins. That's all the players' doing. Just like trying to make them out to be ninjas.

Don't try to put words in the game's mouth, and then claim that the game doesn't fulfill them. That's...just so many kinds of wrong.

[Indirik]

Which is stupid. He snuck in your tent and decides he will try to see if he is lucky when randomly stabbing the body instead of throat or head. It it's almost laughable ever he trying to call any infiltrator an assassin when history implies that all infils are idiots and can't ever actually kill someone.

It's called suspension of disbelief. You have to just go with the flow, and realize that the game makes compromises to keep gameplay going.

[Penchant]

No. You woke up. You had a weapon in your hand. He did not have the opportunity to just stab you through the eye when you slept.

Which is stupid too as it implies every character wakes up in time.

In any case, the game never tries to call infiltrators assassins. That's all the players' doing. Just like trying to make them out to be ninjas.

The official help page on classes states that infiltrators may be able to:

carry out assassinations

and those who assassinate are assassins. Also, the ninja thing is based on all the descriptions of the class including the name, supporting ninja like actions.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

That's quite false. It makes no mention of throat-slittings.

The specific text you get when you are seriously wounded by an infiltrator (ie, the worst it can be), is

Even if he catches you sleeping, you always wake up in time to grab a dagger and at least try to defend yourself. Your wounds are body-wounds at worst, not neck-wounds.

And these days, it can even turn out to be not that bad—his blade missed the vital organs, or maybe the blood on your shirt was from a smaller scratch and the major wounds were only in your thigh and shoulder—and you only get a regular wound.

You manage to sneak into his sleeping quarters unnoticed.
Silently, you sneak up on your target, and surprise him.
You quickly put him down for good, seriously wounding him before you make your escape.

How does that implies that he even woke up?

Since an infil can't kill a noble why can he atleast be able to kill a Hero or an advy? People choosing both of these classes know that their characters may die and should be prepared for that. You just add an extra risk.

[Perth]

That's quite false. It makes no mention of throat-slittings.

You're right, I didn't mean to say that it actually mentions throat slitting, what I am saying is that the game implies that the infiltrator is trying to assassinate you in your sleep. You just happen to always wake up, or the infiltrator is heard by the guards, etc. It is implied that if those things don't happen, the infiltrator is going to kill you in your sleep. He is obviously not trying to sneak into your tent at night, with the goal of waking you up and having a knife fight.


My point is this: they don't fit in. Its awkward. There is no good way to pretend infiltrators are what they are supposed to be as they are currently set up in the game. Nobles who try to assassinate people, are open about it (usually), and have a 100% fail rate.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

You're right, I didn't mean to say that it actually mentions throat slitting, what I am saying is that the game implies that the infiltrator is trying to assassinate you in your sleep. You just happen to always wake up, or the infiltrator is heard by the guards, etc. It is implied that if those things don't happen, the infiltrator is going to kill you in your sleep. He is obviously not trying to sneak into your tent at night, with the goal of waking you up and having a knife fight.


My point is this: they don't fit in. Its awkward. There is no good way to pretend infiltrators are what they are supposed to be as they are currently set up in the game. Nobles who try to assassinate people, are open about it (usually), and have a 100% fail rate.

Stop making assumptions about the fail rate because you are afraid of getting stabbed.

[Perth]

Stop making assumptions about the fail rate because you are afraid of getting stabbed.

What assumptions am I making? Infiltrators fail at killing people. Characters in the game cannot die. That's not an assumption.

[Eldargard]

Stop making assumptions about the fail rate because you are afraid of getting stabbed.

There is no assumption here. The goal is assassination. To kill. It never happens. You fail at achieving this goal %100 of the time. The mechanics do not allow for more than "You hurt him bad and escape without being identified". That is not a successful assassination.

I am not saying that this is bad or unintentional. I admit that I do not like it personally. I want characters, including my own, to die. Die in battle, die by assassination, die of old age. I also know this will not happen. So be it!

[Tom]

I want characters, including my own, to die.

You will love M&F. It will be wholesale slaughter.

[Anaris]

Which is stupid too as it implies every character wakes up in time.
The official help page on classes states that infiltrators may be able to:

carry out assassinations

and those who assassinate are assassins. Also, the ninja thing is based on all the descriptions of the class including the name, supporting ninja like actions.

You manage to sneak into his sleeping quarters unnoticed.
Silently, you sneak up on your target, and surprise him.
You quickly put him down for good, seriously wounding him before you make your escape.

How does that implies that he even woke up?

These are good points. These texts should be changed to clarify what actually happens a little better.

There is no assumption here. The goal is assassination. To kill.

That's very much like saying the goal of looting a city is to destroy it so it can never be rebuilt, or building up a city out of a rural field. You're welcome to say that's your goal all you want, but we all know it's completely, 100% impossible so that makes you a bit of a twit for claiming that to be your goal in the first place.

The game does not make any such assumption. The game's assumption is that you want to seriously injure your target. It's completely, 100% possible to do that.

It's all about your assumptions.

[Eldargard]

so that makes you a bit of a twit for claiming that to be your goal in the first place.

A bit insulting, but fine. It is not MY expectation. It is the expectation given by the game text/wiki and ones understanding of reality. Sure, I know very well that infil attacks simply do not kill and as a player I would never expect it to happen. At the same time, the wiki/text conveys, in my opinion, a different message. One of killing. One can also look at this with an IC/OCC split. OOC I know that infiltrators can not kill. IC, I simply have to wonder how in all these years not a single noble has been assassinated.

In the end it does not matter much to me. I do not play infils, the game rocks and I will keep enjoying it. Perhaps the help/text could be streamlined a bit but that is up to the dev team to decide.

[Anaris]

A bit insulting, but fine. It is not MY expectation. It is the expectation given by the game text/wiki and ones understanding of reality.

No. It is not the expectation given by the game text. It is the expectation given by your fellow players.

I would note that the Assault option's text explicitly says:

While you are not a trained assassin, you know enough of both stealth and fighting to ambush someone.

(Emphasis mine.)

Sure, I know very well that infil attacks simply do not kill and as a player I would never expect it to happen. At the same time, the wiki/text conveys, in my opinion, a different message. One of killing. One can also look at this with an IC/OCC split. OOC I know that infiltrators can not kill. IC, I simply have to wonder how in all these years not a single noble has been assassinated.

Find me quotes in the game text and wiki that support this with more than vague allusions to attacking people, and I will reconsider my position.

As it stands, though, I believe you have simply been misled by the many people playing the game who want Infiltrators to be secret shadow ninja assassin killerz.

In the end it does not matter much to me. I do not play infils, the game rocks and I will keep enjoying it. Perhaps the help/text could be streamlined a bit but that is up to the dev team to decide.

I have already added a line to the text an infil sees when successfully assaulting a noble that clarifies that the noble does wake up and attempt to defend him/herself, and clarified in the Wiki that the only actual assassination infiltrators can do is of militia. Not nobles.

[Anaris]

What assumptions am I making? Infiltrators fail at killing people. Characters in the game cannot die. That's not an assumption.

The assumption you are making (and I'm flabbergasted that I actually have to reiterate this) is that infiltrators are in any way intended to be able to kill nobles.

The game does not tell you they can do this. The wiki does not tell you they can do this.

If you believe infiltrators should be able to kill nobles, it is because of an image that the players have built up around them. Not because of anything in the inherent design or presentation of the class.

[Eldargard]

No. It is not the expectation given by the game text. It is the expectation given by your fellow players.

I would note that the Assault option's text explicitly says:

(Emphasis mine.)

Find me quotes in the game text and wiki that support this with more than vague allusions to attacking people, and I will reconsider my position.

As it stands, though, I believe you have simply been misled by the many people playing the game who want Infiltrators to be secret shadow ninja assassin killerz.

I have already added a line to the text an infil sees when successfully assaulting a noble that clarifies that the noble does wake up and attempt to defend him/herself, and clarified in the Wiki that the only actual assassination infiltrators can do is of militia. Not nobles.

I stand corrected and guilty as charged. Thank you for enlightening me!

[Foundation]

Ah, the Great Timghthouse. :)

P.S. I was gonna remove the m, but then... I thought better of it.