Caelum

[Poliorketes]

Oh... almost forgot! The things about not wanting duel-competitions... is only for nobles, or it apply to adventurers too?

Maybe my idea of gladiator games, and bets, etc... can be more difficult than I thought... Maybe I could convince Victus to make a realm with the all positions given through auctions!... You want a lordship? ok, how much are you going to pay for it?  ;D

[Naidraug]

The only thing I can't understand is the fast and hard reaction in defense of Onamont... You all were from the same realm, or army comrades, or something?

Nope, I never played with him.

The problem was that Edmund banished him for nothing, instead of accepting the duel an fight for his honor. And the ban was given with a backstage "trial". There was really no reason to ban him, out of cowardice and the atemptive to make the realm a tyranny.

[Indirik]

Ralina has never met these people before. I think there only two of us from Sint? Maybe three? The others are not getting invollved.

Re:advies: they don't duel. They brawl with weapons. The uncivilized peasants.

[Geronus]

The reaction happened the way it did because Edmundus effectively turned Onamont into a martyr, not because he is particularly beloved or has many allies. I doubt most of the people protesting know Onamont from a hole in the wall.

[Indirik]

And again:

Knights Protesting   (1 hour, 30 minutes ago)
Protests against Sir Victus Draco Tanos, Grand Prince of Caelum, Ambassador of Caelum, Duke of the Meshian Plains, Priest of Church of Humanity are increasing, and result in a loss of a point of prestige for him.

[Indirik]

Sorry, removed my message, D:

No biggie. I use the mobile (WAP2) version of the forum to post, mostly, and it does not offer a quote function. Hard to relate my post to another without a quote feature.

[Poliorketes]

mmm... I think I'm going to make a Edmundus-meltdown.

I changed him to Hero when I first begun to play BM... And honestly, I don't enjoy too much playing a hero... too goody and too limited for my taste! So I send him to have a glorious death battling daemons... no luck... then monsters... no luck either!...  :P

If this don't kill him, I don't know what will do.  ;D

[Chenier]

"Lay low, and eventually they'll turn on each other".

I love being right. :P

[Velax]

Even though I have no characters on Bel, this has been a really interesting thread to read.

[Vellos]

YOU ALL ARE A BUNCH OF IGNOBLE AND HONOURLESS TRAITORS!!!... Good!... For a moment I thought you all were ready to chicken! At this point, it would had been totally incoherent! (would had been? it is even correct?)  :P

IMHO if a 'medieval' noble reach the level of 'personal insults' there is no way back. It would be surreal to work as if nothing was happened with a man who has insulted your honour a few days before... I can understand even a educated-row solved with a duel... But if insults are throw, and the 'proper respect' is lost, then only one can stand in the end.

This is the reason Edmundus never had insulted anyone, even with Onamont, he only throw back his own insults. For me, to insult in this way, in a medieval atmosphere, means 'total war'. Only one will get out alive of this matter!

It's a shame Edmundus was a council member, if not, He would happyly duel all this bunch of traitors and honourless nobles to death!  ;D

The only thing I can't understand is the fast and hard reaction in defense of Onamont... You all were from the same realm, or army comrades, or something?

This message just continues to prove how horribly you have misunderstood the situation.

Onamont has NO friends and comrades. NO connections. And, frankly, he hasn't really tried to make any. He doesn't want friends. He doesn't care about politics. At. All. Nada. Zip. Zilch. If I had the stats for it, I'd have made him a Cavalier already, but I haven't been able to.

People are coming to Onamont's aid because Edmundus made an ass of himself in a very public fashion. You can say all you want, but Edmundus DID insult Onamont when Onamont HAD NOT insulted Edmundus (though he had insulted Victus). Onamont publicly requested multiple apologies, and Edmundus basically laughed and said, "lol, I'm the judge."

Then it went private for a bit– making folks think things were resolving. Then the next thing anybody hears is BAM, Onamont is banned.

Seriously, it's not about Onamont being popular. It's not about friendships. It's not about political schemings abroad. The error that Edmundus/Victus have made since the beginning is to foolishly think this dispute had ANYTHING to do with geopolitical rivalries. It didn't. It was about two stubborn men getting pissed at each other. Trying to play it out as a political question was extremely unwise for the current regime. Victus would have been much wiser to push Edmundus to accept the duel.

He may yet come through this... but not without having severely damaged his own realm and its standing with all its neighbors.

[Poliorketes]

This message just continues to prove how horribly you have misunderstood the situation.

Onamont has NO friends and comrades. NO connections. And, frankly, he hasn't really tried to make any. He doesn't want friends. He doesn't care about politics. At. All. Nada. Zip. Zilch. If I had the stats for it, I'd have made him a Cavalier already, but I haven't been able to.

People are coming to Onamont's aid because Edmundus made an ass of himself in a very public fashion. You can say all you want, but Edmundus DID insult Onamont when Onamont HAD NOT insulted Edmundus (though he had insulted Victus). Onamont publicly requested multiple apologies, and Edmundus basically laughed and said, "lol, I'm the judge."

Then it went private for a bit– making folks think things were resolving. Then the next thing anybody hears is BAM, Onamont is banned.

Seriously, it's not about Onamont being popular. It's not about friendships. It's not about political schemings abroad. The error that Edmundus/Victus have made since the beginning is to foolishly think this dispute had ANYTHING to do with geopolitical rivalries. It didn't. It was about two stubborn men getting pissed at each other. Trying to play it out as a political question was extremely unwise for the current regime. Victus would have been much wiser to push Edmundus to accept the duel.

He may yet come through this... but not without having severely damaged his own realm and its standing with all its neighbors.

mmm... Me? misunderstand?... You meant Edmundus!!! Thankfully, is not the same thing!!!  ::)

I can't talk for Victus... Obviously, I would not made the same things.

Edmundus has some things very clear:
Council members DON'T death-duel, it would be a weakness for the realm to let any infiltrator to kill them freely.
Onamont insulted all Caelum noblemen, and he insulted the Grand Prince, so he insulted too all Caelum noblemen too... again.
He honestly tried to reason with Onamont, but when him continued insulting him, He made the only thing he had to defend himself: Ban Onamont. And honestly, you think a medieval Judge would made something else in the same situation?... Well, Yes... a Medieval Judge would have chopped his head!!!  ;D

Both, Edmundus and Onamont thought the other was in the wrong, and their position was the honourable one... This the interesting point in the situation! mmm... I hadn't thought in this: (maybe it's not possible) but the best answer it could had been to 'depose' Edmundus for a day, duel, and name him Justicarius again the next day... if he was still alive!  :P

Right now, the situation is interesting! Edmundus has insulted Ralina publicly, (you know, traitor, scoundrel, etc... the usual) and as he isn't judge any more, He asked the 'traitors' for death duels... but after getting what she wanted, Ralina take all the insults and duels as a joke. This, for a medieval noble would be totally dishonourable and make evident she only 'used' Onamont for her own reasons... But I don't know how are to react the rest of the realm: They will make 'medieval' RP, or they better make a more 'modern politic' RP??? In the first option Ralina is in a bad situation, and she will be probably forced to duel. If is the second, they will simply ignore Edmundus, as if a noble calling names to other was the more usual thing.  ::)

Well, We'll see what happens! :)

[Naidraug]

mmm... Me? misunderstand?... You meant Edmundus!!! Thankfully, is not the same thing!!!  ::)

I can't talk for Victus... Obviously, I would not made the same things.

Edmundus has some things very clear:
Council members DON'T death-duel, it would be a weakness for the realm to let any infiltrator to kill them freely.
Onamont insulted all Caelum noblemen, and he insulted the Grand Prince, so he insulted too all Caelum noblemen too... again.
He honestly tried to reason with Onamont, but when him continued insulting him, He made the only thing he had to defend himself: Ban Onamont. And honestly, you think a medieval Judge would made something else in the same situation?... Well, Yes... a Medieval Judge would have chopped his head!!!  ;D

Both, Edmundus and Onamont thought the other was in the wrong, and their position was the honourable one... This the interesting point in the situation! mmm... I hadn't thought in this: (maybe it's not possible) but the best answer it could had been to 'depose' Edmundus for a day, duel, and name him Justicarius again the next day... if he was still alive!  :P

Right now, the situation is interesting! Edmundus has insulted Ralina publicly, (you know, traitor, scoundrel, etc... the usual) and as he isn't judge any more, He asked the 'traitors' for death duels... but after getting what she wanted, Ralina take all the insults and duels as a joke. This, for a medieval noble would be totally dishonourable and make evident she only 'used' Onamont for her own reasons... But I don't know how are to react the rest of the realm: They will make 'medieval' RP, or they better make a more 'modern politic' RP??? In the first option Ralina is in a bad situation, and she will be probably forced to duel. If is the second, they will simply ignore Edmundus, as if a noble calling names to other was the more usual thing.  ::)

Well, We'll see what happens! :)

We have no way to know how a medieval noble would actually act, but if there was honor involved the king would most likely see that a duel for honor would happen. If Edmund was indeed so insulted, to ban the noble would be the coward way to do it. Council members do duel to the death and can do it if their honor has been insulted enough to deserve a death duel.

Now, we can all ignore the cries from Edmund, he has shown to be a madman, and there is no honor into dueling a madman for what ever nonsense he says.

[Indirik]

Knights Protesting (9 hours, 20 minutes ago) Protests against Sir Victus Draco Tanos, Grand Prince of Caelum, Ambassador of Caelum, Duke of the Meshian Plains, Priest of Church of Humanity are increasing, and result in a loss of a point of prestige for him.

A third one... it is tough to protest out a ruler in a monarchy.

[Indirik]

@poliorketes:
Three things: first, Edmundus offered insult to Onamont, then refused to duel, and banished him. Edmundus has shown that he has no honor. Therefore, he has no right to demand duels from others until he redeems his honor by dueling Onamont.

Second: Ralina laughed at Edmundus, and scorned his message, to mock him. She treated him exactly how Edmundus treated Onamont, by quoting the realm law, and suggesting he be banned, too.

Third, I *hate* it when people send messages and then tack on "HA HA! I insulted you, now you *have* to duel me!!!" I doubly hate it when they do that IC. It is a clear sign that they have no intention to use a duel to resolve a point of honor, and only wish to try to kill someone, or get their character killed.

[Indirik]

Knights Protesting (38 minutes ago) Protests against Sir Victus Draco Tanos, Grand Prince of Caelum, Ambassador of Caelum, Duke of the Meshian Plains, Priest of Church of Humanity are increasing, and result in a loss of a point of prestige for him.

Blarg... still not enough. Third time for that, but Victus still holds the throne!