Caelum

[Draco Tanos]

We can't remove him, but we can ostracize him.

Already been done.  Don't give a damn.  After all, you're a bunch of oath-breaking traitors.  Well most of you.

[Geronus]

Already been done.  Don't give a damn.  After all, you're a bunch of oath-breaking traitors.  Well most of you.

Pretty sure no one took any oaths about not speaking their minds   :)

What will Victus do now? Is he looking for a second act in Caelum, or somewhere else?

[Draco Tanos]

Oh, he's going to make sure most of you lose your land, titles, and possibly lives.

[Geronus]

Oh, he's going to make sure most of you lose your land, titles, and possibly lives.

Ah. In Caelum then.  :D Sounds like fun.

[Indirik]

Woohoo! Round 2, coming up!

[Indirik]

Giving away Mokut would solve several problems. We don't need it, as we will already produce a huge excess of food. So getting rid of the extra duchy would be quite easy. Order him to step down as duke and move the region to a different duchy. If he refuses, you give away his region and dissolve the duchy. Nothoi gets a free region, and that's the end of the problem.

[Vellos]

Giving away Mokut would solve several problems. We don't need it, as we will already produce a huge excess of food. So getting rid of the extra duchy would be quite easy. Order him to step down as duke and move the region to a different duchy. If he refuses, you give away his region and dissolve the duchy. Nothoi gets a free region, and that's the end of the problem.

Sounds like a plan.

[Naidraug]

Giving away Mokut would solve several problems. We don't need it, as we will already produce a huge excess of food. So getting rid of the extra duchy would be quite easy. Order him to step down as duke and move the region to a different duchy. If he refuses, you give away his region and dissolve the duchy. Nothoi gets a free region, and that's the end of the problem.

whaaa? you can´t give us the region no no no...we don´t need it. Already have 2 lord-less regions...

[Turner]

*drum roll*

And the evil S*nt**n plot continues... :P

[Anaris]

whaaa? you can´t give us the region no no no...we don´t need it. Already have 2 lord-less regions...

Nono, it comes with a Lord. You're welcome to keep him.

[Indirik]

And the evil S*nt**n plot continues... :P

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! Those evil Sintians will DESTROY CAELUM!

The realm-wide referendum, started by an ex-Riombaran, passed in favor of dissolving the third duchy, by a vote of 14 to 4. (You didn't realize we had so many Ex-Sintians, did you?!) All other region lords have left the duchy (only one was left, the rest having left during the protest campaign), and the ruler has officially, and publicly, asked Victus to step down both as duke and as lord of Mokut, so the duchy can be dissolved, and the region returned to the duke to which it belongs.

[Naidraug]

Nono, it comes with a Lord. You're welcome to keep him.

Well if it comes with a lord...then...no...don´t want this lord either.

[Turner]

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! Those evil Sintians will DESTROY CAELUM!

The realm-wide referendum, started by an ex-Riombaran, passed in favor of dissolving the third duchy, by a vote of 14 to 4. (You didn't realize we had so many Ex-Sintians, did you?!) All other region lords have left the duchy (only one was left, the rest having left during the protest campaign), and the ruler has officially, and publicly, asked Victus to step down both as duke and as lord of Mokut, so the duchy can be dissolved, and the region returned to the duke to which it belongs.

Referendums in a Monarchy, what next. Hell, you should have just had a rebellion and reformed as a democracy if the ruler needs to go seeking consent on every single decision within the realm.

You peacefully protested Victus out and elected a new ruler, fair enough. But I think you are going too far now with trying to get him to step down and give up his lordship and dukeship. On the surface, it just looks like the same opportunists who wanted him out as ruler are looking to remove further opposition and consolidate their control further. I have had my fair share of issues with lords and dukes, so I am all too familiar with these situations. I reckon if those in Caelum and the new ruler keep pressing on this matter, its not going to bode well and going to make moving forward and building the realm that much harder.

As for your comment "Those evil Sintians will DESTROY CAELUM!", you said it, not me ;)

[Indirik]

The same opportunists? Yeah... all 14 of the ones who voted for disbanded the duchy... they're all opportunists.

I'm sorry, but you *really* don't understand the extent to which Victus alienated nearly the entire realm.  Of the four that voted to keep the third duchy, one was certainly Victus, one was Edmundus, and a third would be Traemlin (the general). The disgraced ruler, the disgraced judge, and the ruler's lone vocal supporter. Not sure who the last would be ,but I could probably make a guess if I had to.

So, what do the other 14 nobles, err... "opportunists", get out of kicking Victus out of his duchy? It's not like this opens up any opportunities for them, does it? In fact, it reduces the opportunities, as there will be one less duchy, and less dukes to suck up to in order to get a lordship.

While normally I would agree that too many referendums would be against the spirit of a monarchy, we have a special situation here. The formation of a realm needs to allow all of the nobility the opportunity to participate and have their voice heard. It looks like Tsumiki is smart enough to understand that. Once she has some time under her belt, and built up the trust of the nobility, she can begin to be more autocratic, if she desires. After all, she has a mandate from the nobility to rule the realm.

And who knows, maybe Caelum will end up as a different beast than a traditional monarchy. Maybe it will be a constitutional or parliamentary monarchy, with an empowered house of lords or something. We don't *have* to be the cookie-cutter monarchy ruling by divine right.

[Turner]

Fair enough.

Im not in Caelum, I can only go on the information I am given.

All I am trying to say is. You peacefully removed him as the ruler, you elected a new one.

What is going after him further going to achieve? Caelum is at a fragile stage, you need all the nobles working together for the common good to go forward. Victus wasnt chosen to be ruler for no reason. Frankly, I fail to see what he has done that is so horrible you need to try and remove his lordship and dukeship from him now.

Dont you think its the realms best interest to work together and get on with things rather than create more unrest and tension in the realm?

Thats all I am trying to get across, other things aside :)