And a new realm lives!

[Pike]

You are seriously trying to say that the position of Duke has no more importance and is worthy of no more respect than a regular Noble? I am flabbergasted at the mere thought.

When it comes to the ability to be able to speak ones words and opinions yes.  Once again I would stress though that it is assumed that when they speak it would be in a respectfully manner.  Just because Sevastian is a Duke does not mean he can talk down to and disrespect every other noble in the realm with the exception of Abbigal because they hold a lesser position then Duke.  Which is what he is basically doing now.   What does it prove when the supposed great and honorabl Duke starts spouting Insults to the ones who are insulting him?  How does this prove him to be any better and therefore deserving more respect?  Respect is something that should be earned even by a Duke.  Right now Sevastain is doing precious little to earn respect.  He is being as much of an ass as Bowie.

[Woelfy]

When it comes to the ability to be able to speak ones words and opinions yes.  Once again I would stress though that it is assumed that when they speak it would be in a respectfully manner.  Just because Sevastian is a Duke does not mean he can talk down to and disrespect every other noble in the realm with the exception of Abbigal because they hold a lesser position then Duke.  Which is what he is basically doing now.   What does it prove when the supposed great and honorabl Duke starts spouting Insults to the ones who are insulting him?  How does this prove him to be any better and therefore deserving more respect?  Respect is something that should be earned even by a Duke.  Right now Sevastain is doing precious little to earn respect.  He is being as much of an ass as Bowie.

Actually, because Sevastian is a Duke, it means precisely that. If anyone comes at a duke with a tone, they should damn well expect one back. The people that Sevastian hasn't been disrespected by get plenty of respect. It's a two way street, Pike.

He has a Ducal Seat, that proves him to be 'better' by hierarchal law.

I'm not saying that Sevastian isn't being an ass, but he sure as hell is showing proper respect to the people deserving of it. Even with Abbigal disagreeing with him, he has remained polite and properly respectful IC, but that is because you haven't been overly insulting with your character and you are Sevastian's equal.

I'd like to know why you feel the need to complain about every single thing my character does IC, in an Ooc manner. Mind explaining?

[Ironsides]

...Bowie is definitely not typical. The character is played very over-the-top. Pretty much a charicature of a noble, I think. Definitely not a style that appeals to everyone. (Not my cup of tea, either.)

In every society there are personalities like Bowie. He fills that niche. I based him (originally) off the Marquis de Sade and Cagliostro and wild guys like that, except a notch or two below because he's not a violent maniac. Other players are welcome to play the straight up rational and proper nobility. All that kneeling and butt kissing, not Bowie. Bowie is the kind of noble that his family would disapprove of and be embarrassed by at social events.

Again, he's that niche. The wild card! If you want to say he's morally/characteristically wrong that's your opinion. He exists in the world and he behaves as he is meant to. There are other players who play their characters in a different way that I don't approve of but that's when Bowie gets to have all the more fun! By ridiculing them! By testing their patience and so called noble composure. (This counts for you too Indirik, your character and Bowie had their spats in the past )

Bowie is very much a nobleman. Very much!

[Pike]

I have a question for those who have been reading this and for anyone Actually in Swordfell.  From the way you see things does it sound like Swordfell has broken from  the Serious Medieval Atmosphere  because it wants to create a realm where its nobles can speak without  regard for Rank being an issue if it is done respectfully.  Where a knight can openly disagree with a Duke and it not bee the end of the world.  This is also given the fact that it states in the laws that everyone is free to speak.

Woefly please do not chime in on this quite yet.  I would like to here from some others first.

[Woelfy]

I hate to deny you your request Pike, but you are twisting my words and I cannot abide that.

The freedom of speech is inherent for all nobles. So far, the issue that i have is that no one has tried being properly respectful based on the hierarchy. Well, not no one, but only a few players in the realm.

The very notion of 'equality' is not a medieval concept. Not in the way you have described it to me. No Knight is on par with a Duke.

[Dante Silverfire]

The very notion of 'equality' is not a medieval concept. Not in the way you have described it to me. No Knight is on par with a Duke.

Is the Prophet of SA at least on par with a Duke? His feudal ranking is just that of a knight.

What about ex-rulers of realms? Do they hold some inherent extra respect as knights and could be considered on par with current dukes?

What about knights who used to hold ducal seats?

[Woelfy]

Is the Prophet of SA at least on par with a Duke? His feudal ranking is just that of a knight.

What about ex-rulers of realms? Do they hold some inherent extra respect as knights and could be considered on par with current dukes?

What about knights who used to hold ducal seats?

On a feudal level, the prophet is a knight. No matter what his status within the church. He has additional respect because of his position in the church, not as a landed noble. They are seperate entities.

I try to give ample respect to former-rulers, provided I know of them. But that comes down to knowledge and individual.

Former Dukes, although deserving of respect, still lack the title and are not /demanding/ of respect on a base level.

[Dante Silverfire]

On a feudal level, the prophet is a knight. No matter what his status within the church. He has additional respect because of his position in the church, not as a landed noble. They are seperate entities.

I try to give ample respect to former-rulers, provided I know of them. But that comes down to knowledge and individual.

Former Dukes, although deserving of respect, still lack the title and are not /demanding/ of respect on a base level.

Interesting. I have different opinions. Anyway, this was off topic, but I'm gonna split this as a new thread on GD.

[Pike]

I hate to deny you your request Pike, but you are twisting my words and I cannot abide that.

The freedom of speech is inherent for all nobles. So far, the issue that i have is that no one has tried being properly respectful based on the hierarchy. Well, not no one, but only a few players in the realm.

The very notion of 'equality' is not a medieval concept. Not in the way you have described it to me. No Knight is on par with a Duke.

So far most of what has happend has been simply words so there is no reason to claim being disrespctfull based on the hierarchy.  With one excpetion.  That being that Bowie being a knight of Flowerstown (and proper elected Ruler) gave orders to Sevastion a Duke(Current steward of the realm).  Other then that where have there been anything other then words where you can claim that the hierarchy was ignored.

[Penchant]

I hate to deny you your request Pike, but you are twisting my words and I cannot abide that.

The freedom of speech is inherent for all nobles. So far, the issue that i have is that no one has tried being properly respectful based on the hierarchy. Well, not no one, but only a few players in the realm.

The very notion of 'equality' is not a medieval concept. Not in the way you have described it to me. No Knight is on par with a Duke.

Republicanism and Democracy are both allowed on Dwilight yet they are not in any medieval either and they are on the basis of all nobles being equals or with republics, lords and dukes being equal so your argument doesn't really hold up, IMO.

[Indirik]

I don't think your idea of equality in republics/democracies is valid. All nobles are *not* equal, regardless of government style. Unless you go with the "some people are more equal than others" philosophy.

[Woelfy]

So far most of what has happend has been simply words so there is no reason to claim being disrespctfull based on the hierarchy.  With one excpetion.  That being that Bowie being a knight of Flowerstown (and proper elected Ruler) gave orders to Sevastion a Duke(Current steward of the realm).  Other then that where have there been anything other then words where you can claim that the hierarchy was ignored.

Kiyth and his outburst (let alone that nonsense about the ice king). Erevos and her outburst. Bowie and almost every word out of his mouth towards Sevastian post-secession. Need I continue?

When has it ever been said that a Lord and a Duke are equal in any sort of government in BM?

Dukes, being the lords that are 'above' lords, by default have more say as they have the allegiance of the 'lower' lords.

You genuinely want to try and tell me that the Duke of Aquitane is worthy of only as much respect as a Baron or Earl within /his/ domain? Let alone what a foreigner would view that as...

[Ironsides]

The intention behind Swordfell was to create a community realm. That's why our government options were democracy and republic, that's why we intend to have a free spoken society.

Legally SMA or not we wanted to have fun together.

[Chenier]

Is the Prophet of SA at least on par with a Duke? His feudal ranking is just that of a knight.

What about ex-rulers of realms? Do they hold some inherent extra respect as knights and could be considered on par with current dukes?

What about knights who used to hold ducal seats?

Just because you aren't a lord right now, doesn't mean you are a "mere knight". A royal, an elder of a religion, and a heir elect are all people who may not be landed but who are in many cases superior in the social hierarchy than most who are actually landed.

[Pike]

Kiyth and his outburst (let alone that nonsense about the ice king). Erevos and her outburst. Bowie and almost every word out of his mouth towards Sevastian post-secession. Need I continue?

Once again all of that has been WORDS in a heated debate caused by Sevastian not stepping down.  Yes Bowie was being his typical self and pushed alot.  Yet other then him attempting to stripe Sevastian of his titles(which he was powerless to do right now).  What actions have been done in disrespect of the hierarchy.  Yes Bowie has been verry disprespectful, Kiyth borderline. Lady Erevos outburst if anything was not aimed at Sevastian much anyway.   So other then words where has the Hirearcy of respect been broken?