The Future of Atamara (Post-Great Atamaran War)

[Perth]

The current PM of Rieleston tried to doe xactly this. Showed up and, like,  a month later or somethng, with few messages to the realm, was asserting a right to kingship. That's what led to Rieleston's secession.

Honestly, if Perth tried something like that, my character would pretty much devote his remaining career to stymying it. I just find it so anathema and distasteful in BM to have a clique of players re-creating themselves to secure power.

Yeah, Kerwin argued pretty emphatically about how there is zero precedence for such a thing as the hereditary inheritance of titles (on any level, but especially in the Monarchy), in Eston or BM in general. Because, well, it's true.

[Elroy]

The current PM of Rieleston tried to doe xactly this. Showed up and, like,  a month later or somethng, with few messages to the realm, was asserting a right to kingship. That's what led to Rieleston's secession.

Honestly, if Perth tried something like that, my character would pretty much devote his remaining career to stymying it. I just find it so anathema and distasteful in BM to have a clique of players re-creating themselves to secure power.

Except for the fact that Christopher II had been in the realm for almost a year, about 2 months longer than your character, had established through RP's during that year that he was the son of a former king, and was "pushed into the spotlight" by other characters who had no claim to the throne (mine being one of them) as a way to RP a legitimate removal of what one faction viewed as an ineffective and incompetent king fully under the influence of an overzealous priest...who showed up in the realm one day venomously denouncing the realm, its nobles, and King for a lack of religious fervor without much of an introductory RP for, at the time, a nobody (in Eston) who just happened to be from a well-known family.

Of course Kerwin would denounce Christopher II...he was the King.  Since this was previously anticipated by players smarter than you believe us to be, other plans were in place and long in motion.  A game mechanic hiccup left us without Elost, which still vexes us now, but the secession was the plan all along, not a rebellion.  Everything was done IC and with a lot of public and private RP's (Elroy worked for months to make sure alliances were in place and that Artutius could not back out of the plan, and when real-life kept me away from the game for a few days and another member of the Entreri family was executed, that was turned into an IC reason for the secession and now a rift between Elroy and Arturius).  I don't know why you two act as though this was some minor tantrum instead of a mostly well-executed and RP'd plan.  Seriously, the amount of mudslinging and whining towards Rieleston from you two on this board is...excessive and doesn't yet appear to be therapeutic.

I agree that a 17 year old daughter of an 80 year old female is ridiculous, but RP'ing a claim to the throne by an established character based on historical precedent is a pretty solid and logical RP.  If Kerwin II shows up and tries to claim the throne of Eston, I think that would lead to some pretty entertaining politics...and a knife in his back of course.

The two of you constantly rewrite the details surrounding Rieleston, but I feel compelled to speak up when things get really inaccurate.

[Vellos]

Except for the fact that Christopher II had been in the realm for almost a year, about 2 months longer than your character, had established through RP's during that year that he was the son of a former king, and was "pushed into the spotlight" by other characters who had no claim to the throne (mine being one of them) as a way to RP a legitimate removal of what one faction viewed as an ineffective and incompetent king fully under the influence of an overzealous priest...who showed up in the realm one day venomously denouncing the realm, its nobles, and King for a lack of religious fervor without much of an introductory RP for, at the time, a nobody (in Eston) who just happened to be from a well-known family.

Of course Kerwin would denounce Christopher II...he was the King.  Since this was previously anticipated by players smarter than you believe us to be, other plans were in place and long in motion.  A game mechanic hiccup left us without Elost, which still vexes us now, but the secession was the plan all along, not a rebellion.  Everything was done IC and with a lot of public and private RP's (Elroy worked for months to make sure alliances were in place and that Artutius could not back out of the plan, and when real-life kept me away from the game for a few days and another member of the Entreri family was executed, that was turned into an IC reason for the secession and now a rift between Elroy and Arturius).  I don't know why you two act as though this was some minor tantrum instead of a mostly well-executed and RP'd plan.  Seriously, the amount of mudslinging and whining towards Rieleston from you two on this board is...excessive and doesn't yet appear to be therapeutic.

I agree that a 17 year old daughter of an 80 year old female is ridiculous, but RP'ing a claim to the throne by an established character based on historical precedent is a pretty solid and logical RP.  If Kerwin II shows up and tries to claim the throne of Eston, I think that would lead to some pretty entertaining politics...and a knife in his back of course.

The two of you constantly rewrite the details surrounding Rieleston, but I feel compelled to speak up when things get really inaccurate.

Pretty sure you have your chronology wrong; I don't think Christopher was present before Cyrilos (or, if so, he was paused). I'm almost certain I remember his arrival.

And to me it's not just Christopher: it's the entire establishment of 80-year-old characters who've all held power forever and all have second characters in Eston. And how, for example, Arturius I remember for sure, threw major OOC tantrums over Eston not "being what it used to be." I've literally never been in a realm with as much OOC politics as Eston.

[Elroy]

I didn't realize that Cyrilos was a member of Eston before returning from Beluaterra.  Must have been during Elroy's time on Beluaterra, since I knew nothing about your character.  Christoper II arrived while you were gone, but his "political arrival" was announced leading up to the secession.

As for two characters in one realm...that is everywhere in the game.  Some people can RP in that situation, and others can't.

And yes, Eston is filled with detestable OOC issues...and I was one who reminded the player of Luka/Kealan repeatedly to keep them separate...and even reported you to the "court" once as well for an OOC issue (I am not going to restart that debate).  The player of Arturius does get emotional at times over the "old Eston" for personal reasons, but that had nothing to do with the secession, which was a completely IC motivated event...if it had been OOC motivated, it would have occurred at least 4 months prior.

[Anaris]

As for two characters in one realm...that is everywhere in the game.

Ah...no. No, it's not.

For one thing, it's absolutely impossible on Dwilight.

For another, there is a pronounced tendency for it to be more common in realms with a more "old-school-BattleMaster" mindset.

According to the data I have, and excluding the Colonies (which are a special case), Eston is tied for third in the game among realms with two nobles per family. (The actual figure is 1.29 nobles per player in Eston, which works out to nearly a third of your players having two characters in the realm.)

[Chenier]

According to the data I have, and excluding the Colonies (which are a special case), Eston is tied for third in the game among realms with two nobles per family. (The actual figure is 1.29 nobles per player in Eston, which works out to nearly a third of your players having two characters in the realm.)

In other words: not that much. I surprised that a mere 1.29 ratio, less than a third, warrants third rank...

[Elroy]

And the "need-to-prove-a-point, nit-pick-every-word" voices come out of the wood work over a single word in a single sentence.  A more interesting statistic would be to exclude every realm (since it was convenient for your point to throw out the Colonies, namely Lukon), and instead focus of the issue of discussion, which was realms with "old" characters in power with a second character in the same realm.  To say that ssituation doesn't happen a lot is not true, says over 6 years of game experience in multiple realms on most of the islands.

[jaune]

Recently when we seemed to lose players, many people created another char if possible to "important" realms to keep em running. There was a lot estates empty and to keep realms functional chars were created.

But i dont see much of problem on it. It is  a bit boring to play 2 chars... my reasoning was that my oldest char is so old that it was pretty hard to do anything else than be The Grumpy man... so created younger one to enjoy battles and warfare.

-Jaune

[Geronus]

And the "need-to-prove-a-point, nit-pick-every-word" voices come out of the wood work over a single word in a single sentence.  A more interesting statistic would be to exclude every realm (since it was convenient for your point to throw out the Colonies, namely Lukon), and instead focus of the issue of discussion, which was realms with "old" characters in power with a second character in the same realm.  To say that ssituation doesn't happen a lot is not true, says over 6 years of game experience in multiple realms on most of the islands.

Sure, it happens everywhere (except for Dwilight). Anecdotally though, I would say that Atamara in general is the worst afflicted. I'd be very curious to see the rest of Vellos' list.

Seriously though, Atamara needs to be fumigated or something. The average playing time of the players who are rulers on Atamara is astoundingly long, which speaks volumes about the limits of upward mobility on that island. It is completely choked with incestuous old-timey IC cliques.

I'll be very curious to see what CE is like over the long term now that I'm playing there. It's a Republic for one thing, which actually serves it very well I think, as they have one of the younger and more dynamic rulers on the island. I'd very much like to get myself into the Senate at some point and see if it is also a dynamic institution. If so, that could go along way toward explaining CE's success in my opinion; the appearance of upward mobility and the opportunity to be engaged and have a say in the realm is a hugely important factor in recruiting and retaining talented young nobles. As a player I can remember that when I started playing BM, I nearly quit after joining an Atamaran realm as my first destination. The place seemed completely dominated by a clique of characters who had been around forever, and I really didn't see any point in staying just to march back and forth across the island on trips that took almost a week in one direction, especially when the prevailing atmosphere seemed to be that the opinions of those outside the clique were not welcome. Thank goodness I gave Dwilight a try when it was just being opened up.

[Dante Silverfire]

I'll be very curious to see what CE is like over the long term now that I'm playing there. It's a Republic for one thing, which actually serves it very well I think, as they have one of the younger and more dynamic rulers on the island. I'd very much like to get myself into the Senate at some point and see if it is also a dynamic institution. If so, that could go along way toward explaining CE's success in my opinion; the appearance of upward mobility and the opportunity to be engaged and have a say in the realm is a hugely important factor in recruiting and retaining talented young nobles. As a player I can remember that when I started playing BM, I nearly quit after joining an Atamaran realm as my first destination. The place seemed completely dominated by a clique of characters who had been around forever, and I really didn't see any point in staying just to march back and forth across the island on trips that took almost a week in one direction, especially when the prevailing atmosphere seemed to be that the opinions of those outside the clique were not welcome. Thank goodness I gave Dwilight a try when it was just being opened up.

Interesting take. When I joined Atamara 4.5 years ago in CE, I was given a region lordship within 1 month. (First character on this account too).

CE's senate though by my "dated" experience is kind of static. The Dukes have all been in power forever. (pretty much same everywhere though) The Prime Ministers of CE are usually lackeys of one Duke or another. The good ones are the ones who start wars CE has a hard time winning, because they are the ones trying to make CE a fun place.

[vonGenf]

Interesting take. When I joined Atamara 4.5 years ago in CE, I was given a region lordship within 1 month. (First character on this account too).

I was once told in Tara that it is impossible for someone with less than 1000 days in the realm to be named Vice-Marshal. I left Atamara, and what I heard anecdotically of the other realms convinced me never to go back. If CE truly gives a chance to newcomers, then I can see that they would be the only ones to retain players.

[Dante Silverfire]

I was once told in Tara that it is impossible for someone with less than 1000 days in the realm to be named Vice-Marshal. I left Atamara, and what I heard anecdotically of the other realms convinced me never to go back. If CE truly gives a chance to newcomers, then I can see that they would be the only ones to retain players.

They aren't the only ones to retain new players. Most of CE's offshoots do as well. I know Darka retains most of theirs.

Coria for instance, if you joined our realm you could likely gain the first lordship election that occurred. (We have less than 2 nobles per region at this point) If you wanted to be a Marshal you'd be appointed almost immediately. All are welcome in our military council if they show interest and aren't obvious spies.

You just have to look around really.

[vonGenf]

You just have to look around really.

I admit I haven't; I looked around on other continents instead, and I stayed there. I'm glad things are better.

[Anaris]

Upon re-examining my data at the request of someone who was looking for first and second place, I realized that I had messed up a couple of things.

First of all, the data I was using before was including adventurers in its numbers, which changes the picture slightly. Second of all, the data were slightly old, and I have updated my numbers with the most recent data available to me. Finally, due to the formatting of my calculations, I managed to miss one other realm that beat Eston for doublets in the realm—Rieleston.

So, for reference, here are the realms with a greater than 1.25 ratio of nobles to players (meaning that at least 1/4 of the realm has 2 characters there):

• Lukon: 1.44^*
• Darka: 1.33
• Barony of Makar and Armonía: 1.32
• Rieleston: 1.3
• Outer Tilog: 1.29^*
• Eston: 1.28
• Enweil: 1.27
• Obsidian Islands: 1.25

^*Due to the nature of the Colonies, with only 1 turn per day, I do consider it to have a different demographic profile than the rest of the continents, and thus I don't consider these numbers to be truly comparable with those from other continents.

So, as you can see, Eston itself isn't quite as bad as I'd originally thought, though it's still not great. Rieleston is noticeably worse, though.

Honestly, the only two things that surprise me about this list are that Armonía is on it, and that CE isn't. They're actually down at a ratio of 1.15—though I do wonder, if I analyzed those 15% of its players who have 2 characters in the realm, how many of them would be old-timers.

[Vellos]

Ah...no. No, it's not.

For one thing, it's absolutely impossible on Dwilight.

For another, there is a pronounced tendency for it to be more common in realms with a more "old-school-BattleMaster" mindset.

According to the data I have, and excluding the Colonies (which are a special case), Eston is tied for third in the game among realms with two nobles per family. (The actual figure is 1.29 nobles per player in Eston, which works out to nearly a third of your players having two characters in the realm.)

YEah, now it's 1.29...

Add in the folks who've recently bumped a character over to Hawthorne, Rieleston, or Darka.

I'll bet Eston was #1.

There was a point where, on Eston's High Council, Cyrilos sent a heated message to them (ICly) saying, almost exacyly, "You are foggy old men on the edge of death– get some new blood!" because the average age of the High Council was 68.

I think I've only ever even had 1, MAYBE 2 characters EVER get to 68, let alone a whole realm governed by nobles whose AVERAGE age is 68.

Eston is getting cleaned up. Still a high frequency of 2-chars, though average age is declining and time-in-office is too.