Nivemus vs. Perdan

[Atanamir]

From the Perdan/Westmoor/Armonia side, there's a consistant character driven logic there. From Nivemus, not so much - their major reasons are that Westmoor allowed Perdan to pass through its territory and then supported its ally in battle. So (by IC logic) why haven't they also declared war on OI and Armonia?

Couldn't put it better. Declaring war on the one, but not on the other ones, is, well, random.

[Uzamaki]

I have stated why we declared war on Westmoor.

They have had aspirations on having Oberndorf, and to certain extents even Ashforth herself, for some time now. Also, Westmoor(and admittedly Armonia) all participated in the largest battle in history on our soil. Obviously, though, Armonia and Nivemus have no previous tensions between our two realms, and I would be open to resolving any such conflict if possible. I think the same can be said between Sirion and Armonia's current state of affairs, but you would have to ask Zaki.

So, in short, tensions between Westmoor and Nivemus have been mounting for some time now. And yes, I do have a logical reason. When another realm makes it very clear they want one of your cities, you don't take that too lightly. But then again, I want one of theirs so I guess we are even.  ;)

At any rate, if you think there was anything logical about Perdan's declaration of war against Nivemus, you are living in dreamland... What King in his right mind declares war on a nation over a few peasants? I mean, yeah, I accept the declaration of war, it was bound to happen anyways, I am glad the East Continent finally isn't stalemated... But it doesn't make a lot of sense. As for Westmoor, they made a complaint about one of our infiltrators entering their lands.

And let it be known I have spoken with Shady and requested he close his borders so that he be completely unbiased. He did not do so, but he let's them be open for all parties, and even though this gives an inherent advantage to Perdan and Westmoor, I respect OI's decision.

[Indirik]

Westmoor protested at Nivemus violating neutral territory

I laughed so hard I think I snorted my drink through my nose.

I bet Westmoor didn't protest very hard about Perdan violating neutral territory, did they?

- their major reasons are that Westmoor allowed Perdan to pass through its territory and then supported its ally in battle.

So you agree that Nivemus has cause to declare war on Westmoor. Good, then we all agree on that point. Therefore the "random" part of your claim seems to be that they have not declared war on OI or Armonia. Not being in Nivemus, I can only guess at their reasons. But just because I don't know them doesn't mean I'm going to call them out for inconsistent RP, or random behavior. There are several reasons I can think of for not declaring the war. Among the biggest is that there not being a state of war hampers Armonia and OI to a large extent, and only helps Nivemus. It greatly reduces OI and Armonia's usefulness to the southern coalition.

[Uzamaki]

I laughed so hard I think I snorted my drink through my nose.

I bet Westmoor didn't protest very hard about Perdan violating neutral territory, did they?

+1

[Gloria]

Ok, halt. 

I played on Nivemus while it was still at peace with Westmoor, and even back then there was a whole "We hate Westmoor; Jor is an idiot" vibe going on.  So yes, there is a real and legitimately roleplayed reason why they declared war. 

Please stop accusing the people we play with of being random or being poor roleplayers.

[Foxglove]

I laughed so hard I think I snorted my drink through my nose.

About allies moving through allied territory? No, why would they? You don't see the difference between that and Nivemus sending assassins into Westmoor to go after Perdanese nobles?

[Sonya]

About allies moving through allied territory? No, why would they? You don't see the difference between that and Nivemus sending assassins into Westmoor to go after Perdanese nobles?

Wait....what?  :o

Since the very first moment Perdan army used Westmoor lands to attack Nivemus, The north had reasons to declare war on Westmoor.

Perdanese and Westmoorian forces took defensive positions in Bruck.

You are Asking....Your own Answers.  ???

Perdanese forces head through OI to attack and loot northern regions of Nivemus.

Random to the extent that they didn't also declare war on Armonia and OI.

Of course, Nivemus have the option to declare war to OI, but that will open a new front. OI may not be wealthy but imagine them looting the regions around Oroya.

OI let the passage open for both sides, so Nivemus can use OI lands to attack as well, the only downside is that OI troops will join Perdan and Westmoor in battle, this can change the outcome of any battle since OI can hurt greatly the other side they are against, is just they are not sure who is the winning side...But for diplomacy effect, they are on "Perdan's Side"

Which of course it will go bad for OI in case that the north wins, after that Nivemus can attack OI because:
They didn't Joined the north.
They let the south pass.
They were just watching.
OMG  a New Duchy!

TLDR:

Tactics, everything is strategy and tactics, by no declaring war on Armonia and OI, Nivemus keep away a unwanted treat, and didn't give Armonia a reason to travel to the north. Which is a shame.....I wanted to ride over some Elven Heads.



Peace.

[Indirik]

About allies moving through allied territory?

So then Westmoor is not "neutral territory". That phrase has a very specific meaning. "Giving free passage to one side while denying passage to the other" does not fit the bill.

[Uzamaki]

So then Westmoor is not "neutral territory". That phrase has a very specific meaning. "Giving free passage to one side while denying passage to the other" does not fit the bill.

And another +1.

[Uzamaki]

Ok, halt. 

I played on Nivemus while it was still at peace with Westmoor, and even back then there was a whole "We hate Westmoor; Jor is an idiot" vibe going on.  So yes, there is a real and legitimately roleplayed reason why they declared war. 

Please stop accusing the people we play with of being random or being poor roleplayers.

This is true. Like I said, tensions, from what I understand tensions on both sides, have been mounting for a while now.

[Foxglove]

So then Westmoor is not "neutral territory". That phrase has a very specific meaning. "Giving free passage to one side while denying passage to the other" does not fit the bill.

As far as I know, Nivemus never tried to negotiate passage rights through Westmoor. If they did, and it was refused, then fair enough. They probably just assumed that it would be refused.

Wait....what?  :o

Since the very first moment Perdan army used Westmoor lands to attack Nivemus, The north had reasons to declare war on Westmoor.

Like you said yourself, Perdan also used OI's lands to attack Nivemus.

[Uzamaki]

As far as I know, Nivemus never tried to negotiate passage rights through Westmoor. If they did, and it was refused, then fair enough. They probably just assumed that it would be refused.

It was an infiltrator acting on his own... Westmoor was itching for war, they were only looking for an excuse to attack. Only they were itching for a war of neutrality, where their infiltrators, priests, and other nobility would have free reign to walk through our lands. Perdan tends to use this tactic quite often as well. I was not willing to let this happen, and also, eventually it was bound to happen as either one side or the other is eventually going to start trying to TO regions.

[Foxglove]

Westmoor was itching for war, they were only looking for an excuse to attack.

No, they weren't, interestingly enough. Westmoor was mainly concerned about Nivemus's ambitions towards Oligarch, and their actions were driven by that. You'd be surprised by how much of an anti-war vibe there was within at least half of Westmoor's nobility before this current war started.

That priest going into Oberndorf was something no-one in Westmoor noticed. I think he left when Nivemus raised it, didn't he? Westmoor's infiltrators never entered Nivemus territory prior to Nivemus's war declaration - I should know, because Thomas ordered them not to.

[Uzamaki]

No, they weren't, interestingly enough. Westmoor was mainly concerned about Nivemus's ambitions towards Oligarch, and their actions were driven by that. You'd be surprised by how much of an anti-war vibe there was within at least half of Westmoor's nobility before this current war started.

Color me skeptical.

[Foxglove]

Westmoor spent the last two years of real-time trying to improve relations with the North. The problem is that no-one believes them. They bent over backwards to accomodate the wishes of Sirion during the first Westmoor vs Fontan war.