I Hate Food

[Solari]

But if a rural is easier to manage and yields more gold than a city, then that just makes the rural the aspirational one, does it not? Is that a problem?

It is a problem when virtually all of the functions necessary for a realm to survive are in cities. Then, the relationship becomes something akin to extortion: a bunch of (or even a few) rural lieges, either motivated by gold or keenly aware of how empowered they are, are capable of bringing a realm to its knees as a consequence of this one issue.

One could argue any number of things as to how this could have been avoided. The point is that it isn't just easy for a realm to find itself in this situation; the game practically incentivizes it.

[vonGenf]

Many rural Lords, acting together, can bring a realm to its knees. I think that's normal and good.

Remember that a single City Lord is also able to bring a realm to its knees, by your agument. Is this in any way better?

[vonGenf]

If that yield were actually due to talent, management skill, and ambition on the part of the rural lord, and incompetence of the city lord, then I could agree. But it's not. It's due entirely to the meta factors of region stats, over which the lord has no control.

(Note that there are always exceptions.  I'm not counting the ridiculously poor "cities" like Gaston and Chrysantalys.)

And ridiculously rich rurals, like Montijo. But that's exactly my point.

If place A is rich and place B poor, and A happens to be rural and B urban, why is that a problem?

[Anaris]

And ridiculously rich rurals, like Montijo. But that's exactly my point.

If place A is rich and place B poor, and A happens to be rural and B urban, why is that a problem?

It's not.

It's a problem if that becomes the rule, rather than the exception.

[Kwanstein]

328 gold a week for the lord of Golden Farrow is ridiculously low. The lord of that city should be making nearly three times that much.

15% taxes is only slightly below what the region could run without constant attention. You shouldn't think that because a lord can babysit the region and run 20% or higher, that this should be considered normal. It simply is not.

Three times as much?! That's more than the Lord would make even if he didn't have to purchase food. If Lords are indeed supposed to make as much as you say, then cities need to have their incomes boosted. Right now, the only chance at reaching such an income would be to implement those methods of mine which you deem abnormal (and that's without factoring food into account).

[Psyche]

All the balance issues in mechanics aside, don't under estimate a city lords ability to fight back.  Is your realm not helping your city remain profitable?  Jump ship.  Only city?  Destroy your smithy and other important buildings specialized to the region type as "cutting expenses" to afford high food prices.  Might be some drastic measures, and might not work in the average scenario, but the point is cities can and should fight dirty too.

If a rural region lord is constantly jacking up prices of something you need, remind him what he needs.   Hell, since somebody mentioned sponsors often being city lords, take some diplomacy into account.   Make those lords pay for the service, or lack of it.  Keep your army back while a neutral realm loots the region and sells you the food at a fair price- if the lord isn't helping you, who the hell cares if his assets are damaged?

Get a religion to back you.  "These lords in Rural Swindler Regions are starving the faithful that I house in my city.  Help punish them by throwing them out; feel free to claim the region yourself with my endorsement in exchange for cheaper food"


Just like realms are limited in nobles when selecting lords and end up with greedy food barons, do you think they'll do better with city lords?  Do you think those same greedy barons will give up their income to buy other lords food?  Do you think they want a duke taxing them all to accommodate food prices?

All sides of the arguments listed on this thread have merit, but I'm surprised many aren't proposing any sort of IG reaction.  Since food came about there have been some complaining about BATTLEMaster shouldn't have so much resource management.  Take advantage of the difficulties in resource management and BATTLE over it.

[vonGenf]

328 gold a week for the lord of Golden Farrow is ridiculously low. The lord of that city should be making nearly three times that much.

I'm not sure where that "should" comes from either. No one is entitled to 1000 pieces of gold per week.

[LilWolf]

All sides of the arguments listed on this thread have merit, but I'm surprised many aren't proposing any sort of IG reaction.  Since food came about there have been some complaining about BATTLEMaster shouldn't have so much resource management.  Take advantage of the difficulties in resource management and BATTLE over it.

Fighting with your own realm mates does not make for an enjoyable game in the long term. Not for me at least. It quickly spirals beyond the food and then your realm starts really falling apart.

It ruins the atmosphere and certainly contradicts the proud declaration of being a part of a team that's on the front page.

[Solari]

Fighting with your own realm mates does not make for an enjoyable game in the long term. Not for me at least. It quickly spirals beyond the food and then your realm starts really falling apart.

It ruins the atmosphere and certainly contradicts the proud declaration of being a part of a team that's on the front page.

[Indirik]

As lord of Libidizedd, with much less than half the population of Golden Farrow, I can easily pull down over 700 a week, which includes some food purchases. That's not even trying. If I really wanted to push it, I could probably get nearly 1K. Golden Farrow's lord should easily be able to get way over 1K a week. He's lord of one of the richest cities on Dwilight. He *deserves* that much. You want that much? Then work out a way to take that city away from him.

[Psyche]

You're already battling economically.  Either retaliate through other means, or surrender and quit whining about prices/availability of food.

Escalation CAN lead to mediation.  Some times your realm council just needs a kick in the pants to see how hot an issue is.

[vonGenf]

As lord of Libidizedd, with much less than half the population of Golden Farrow, I can easily pull down over 700 a week, which includes some food purchases. That's not even trying. If I really wanted to push it, I could probably get nearly 1K. Golden Farrow's lord should easily be able to get way over 1K a week. He's lord of one of the richest cities on Dwilight. He *deserves* that much. You want that much? Then work out a way to take that city away from him.

But why? Sorry, I may be a bit dense, but I really don't see it.

Your argument seems to be that even though Libidizedd creates more gold for its Lord than Golden Farrow does, nevertheless Golden Farrow, on some other esoteric ranking, is richer, and therefore its gold output should be brought in line? I don't get it. Why is it so wrong if Libidizedd is richer than Golden Farrow after food purchases?

[Psyche]

Some times it's just a bunch of factors, like management.  For instance, on BT, Hvrek was once lord of Lopa when this new system kicked in.  His food sales paid for investments.  As a priest/diplomat, he stayed in his region to maintain it at 25% tax with constant investments for as long as he felt like.  He ended up on average with around 1k gold a week, after investment costs.  Lopa's stats on region page were 400 some gold and 500 some food.  Food was sold somewhere along the lines of 20-30 gold per 100 bushels.

[Indirik]

Why is it so wrong if Libidizedd is richer than Golden Farrow after food purchases?

Because Golden Farrow is a bigger, richer city. Of course it should make more gold. Significantly more gold. Assuming all other factors being equal.

(All other factors aren't equal in reality, of course. There are several key differences, but that's mostly irrelevant for this discussion.)

The whole point of having big, rich cities to highlight and enhance the inequalities. They are supposed to be fabulously rich. They're the lords of the most prosperous cities. Why wouldn't they be rich?

[vonGenf]

Because Golden Farrow is a bigger, richer city. Of course it should make more gold. Significantly more gold.

What measure are you using to say Golden Farrow is richer?

Clearly it's not gold. You said you get more gold in Libidizedd. So what is it? How do you rank cities from richest to poorest? Alphabetically?