I Hate Food

[Anaris]

Then let's get auto-sell orders set up. That at least reduces the number of trapped nobles to lords/stewards of food-demanding regions only.

On the slate for next month.

Couldn't we just set auto-buy orders to buy from tax revenues? That's how food used to work, as I recall.

Yes, and it caused a lot of problems, primarily relating to sending total tax revenues negative.

One thing that might be possible is to allow auto-buy only if there's actually enough in the current tax pot to cover it, which would mean, basically, that auto-buy orders would not work right after tax day. And when there's a lot of militia. And when the region's been badly looted. Etc.

But we'd still have to examine that option and see if it looks like it will be exploitable or likely to cause other presently unforeseen problems.

[Dante Silverfire]

Yes, and it caused a lot of problems, primarily relating to sending total tax revenues negative.

One thing that might be possible is to allow auto-buy only if there's actually enough in the current tax pot to cover it, which would mean, basically, that auto-buy orders would not work right after tax day. And when there's a lot of militia. And when the region's been badly looted. Etc.

But we'd still have to examine that option and see if it looks like it will be exploitable or likely to cause other presently unforeseen problems.

Why not just allow lords to "Fill" the auto-sell orders from anywhere, even if they aren't in their region? This would mean that while lords of cities and such would still have to import food manually, that they could do so even at the battlefront.

This isn't that much of a hassle in comparison to current standards, and if the auto-sell orders are in place, it shouldn't be difficult or time consuming either.

Another Alternative: Allow region lords to place gold in a region's "food purchase chest." The region lord can then set auto-buy orders. However, those orders are only filled if enough gold is present in the "chest" to fill the order. These "chests" could function similar to an army war chest. Except they are only for one region, and each region lord has to fill it for their own region. (I also think that should the region fall in a takoever, the chest contents remain available to the next region lord and cannot be removed OR are lost completely)

[Chenier]

Create a "buy fund". The lord puts the gold in it upfront, and every tax collection, it sees if the gold left in the fund is lower than what the lord put in. If it is, it deduces a portion of the lord's income and puts it to the buy fund.

Result: Auto-buy, and the gold comes directly from the lord's pockets, and out of already-collected gold so no possible negative balances. Prefferably, but not necessary: allow the lord to modify the fund size by taking out or adding gold into it, make him able to set a maximum per tax (in $ and or %) income transfer (so that he's sure to have some left for weekly expenses like troops).

And why a meagre 14 day limit? Why not "1 season", or "1 year"?

[Dante Silverfire]

Create a "buy fund". The lord puts the gold in it upfront, and every tax collection, it sees if the gold left in the fund is lower than what the lord put in. If it is, it deduces a portion of the lord's income and puts it to the buy fund.

Result: Auto-buy, and the gold comes directly from the lord's pockets, and out of already-collected gold so no possible negative balances. Prefferably, but not necessary: allow the lord to modify the fund size by taking out or adding gold into it, make him able to set a maximum per tax (in $ and or %) income transfer (so that he's sure to have some left for weekly expenses like troops).

And why a meagre 14 day limit? Why not "1 season", or "1 year"?

Did you read my message? That's essentially what I said.

I also think mine is better. No need to deal with taking from taxes in my version.

[Chenier]

Did you read my message? That's essentially what I said.

I also think mine is better. No need to deal with taking from taxes in my version.

I only read the first version, which was NOT an auto-buy, and assumed the second one was. Upon reading it, my assumption was correct. Your "no need to deal with taking taxes" is exactly the problem with your version: the lord still needs to manually handle the food purchases. And I really fail to see how putting gold in a buy chest is any different to just putting that gold directly for buy offers.

[Dante Silverfire]

Your "no need to deal with taking taxes" is exactly the problem with your version: the lord still needs to manually handle the food purchases. And I really fail to see how putting gold in a buy chest is any different to just putting that gold directly for buy offers.

I'm sorry that a lord actually has to do SOMETHING. I mean they get so many perks, you'd think responsibilities come along with it.

Is it seriously that difficult to place 500 gold in a "chest" or "buy fund" and letting it purchase food for 3 months?

Wow....that was tough.

Dev's specifically commented on the issues inherent of dealing with tax related auto-buys. So, I gave a solution which doesn't involve it. I also pointed out how they can probably adapt current code from another portion of the game to pull it off.

[Perth]

Indeed, Lords should still be required to be GOOD Lords of their regions, however doing so should be made pretty simple and easy and available to do from just about anywhere.

That way, a region can still be neglected by its Lord and in this case you KNOW they are just being lazy or purposefully neglectful and you can work to remove them.

[Chenier]

There are too many lordships for too few players, so no, I don't feel we should expect very much from them. Especially since most don't care about food, and many propose its outright removal from the game. They still have infrastructure and region stats to care about, which no one is proposing to automate.

[Dante Silverfire]

There are too many lordships for too few players, so no, I don't feel we should expect very much from them. Especially since most don't care about food, and many propose its outright removal from the game. They still have infrastructure and region stats to care about, which no one is proposing to automate.

Region stats and infrastructure are automated for all intents and purposes. They are "one time" events.

Infrastructure: Most lordships have all needed infrastructure already in place. The exception is with newly taken regions in war. Which, under those circumstances, the build up of infrastructure is a one-time event, and is usually considered a "fun" part of being a lord. Therefore, Infrastructure = Perk (not responsibility)

Region Stats: These were suggested to be made easier. Thus, the new estate system was created. Region stats are now VERY easy to maintain. The only things that can drop them are based upon player actions at this point including: 1. Taxing your region too much (your fault), 2. Looting/takeover in war (your fault, stop losing your region to war), 3. Diplomat/Priest action (something which you can deal with). 4. Lack of Food (already being addressed in this thread) 5. Distance from capital (Also your fault. Either centralize your realm, or find a new realm with a closer capital if you don't want to deal with it, or lower your taxes: See 1)

So, Region stats are really not a problem.

In other words, Lordships are pretty much cake and all perks if you remove ALL responsibility inherent in the food system.

[Perth]

There are too many lordships for too few players, so no, I don't feel we should expect very much from them. Especially since most don't care about food, and many propose its outright removal from the game. They still have infrastructure and region stats to care about, which no one is proposing to automate.

No one said we should expect very much, just a bare minimum of effort to ensure your region is fed/can sell food. It's part of the job. Currently the part of the job hinders fun, but it could easily be made to where it doesn't That's what we're trying to get at.

And as far as region stats go... not really. Only time I've ever had to worry about a region stat these days is when/if the region is starving. If it's fed stats basically stay fine. At least in my experience.

[Chenier]

Focusing on management detracts from the game.

What I'm proposing wouldn't make food move around by itself. There'd still need a seller to manually accept the transaction.

In my eyes, food should be reduced to a strict minimum of players' energies, otherwise we may as well scrap it to let players focus on other aspects of gameplay, aspects that are more fun for everyone.

[Dante Silverfire]

Focusing on management detracts from the game.

What I'm proposing wouldn't make food move around by itself. There'd still need a seller to manually accept the transaction.

In my eyes, food should be reduced to a strict minimum of players' energies, otherwise we may as well scrap it to let players focus on other aspects of gameplay, aspects that are more fun for everyone.

Who are you to say that food management isn't a fun part of the game for a portion of the player base?

I already earlier in this thread cited a player who loves the food management portion of the game and does it exclusively as his character's only real actions in the game.

I personally think that all of the actual battle portions of "BM" are boring, and could play this game just as well without having them in the game at all or completely reformed. I play for the political portions, should we remove that as well?

I think a minimal amount of effort by the lord should be expected. The feudal system is built upon gaining BOTH responsibilities and benefits as you move up the hierarchy. Your proposal seems to be that you just want lords to be glorified knights.

[Solari]

We (the devs) appreciate pluralism in the game. We understand that some people—who are demonstrably an extreme minority—enjoy tinkering with the food system. Our first obligation is to the general player base. It has been demonstrated, time and again, that the vast majority of players are either apathetic toward or outright frustrated with the food system.

[Tom]

I welcome all comments to improve the food system.

I won't consider suggestions to make it less important. You see, food was probably THE most important resource before the modern age, with regular famines and all that happening. Feeding an army was the #1 logistics challenge of most ancient and middle-ages warlords.

[Chenier]

We (the devs) appreciate pluralism in the game. We understand that some people—who are demonstrably an extreme minority—enjoy tinkering with the food system. Our first obligation is to the general player base. It has been demonstrated, time and again, that the vast majority of players are either apathetic toward or outright frustrated with the food system.

Pretty much what he says. I never said food wasn't important or fun for anyone. But it isn't for most people. And honestly, making trade rely so much of people who don't give a damn makes it suck a lot more for those who do.

I like that there's trading to do. When there's trading to do, because I hate travelling the whole continent and only ever seeing 1-2 small realm-only sell offers.