I Hate Food

[Penchant]

Also you were using the numbers of what Indirik said. I think the lord of the third richest city should be making definitely be making 5 times that of the a lord of an average rural.

[Penchant]

What measure are you using to say Golden Farrow is richer?

Clearly it's not gold. You said you get more gold in Libidizedd. So what is it? How do you rank cities from richest to poorest? Alphabetically?

Economy, the unwise people ignore it.

[Foundation]

Show me 1 region lord that's making more than 400 gold from taxes. It should be clear on the tax reports.

Then, how many region lords making 300-400 gold from taxes have 400 bushels of surplus every single week?

If we're comparing the richest city lords to the poorest region lords, sure, a 5x difference after food sales is perfectly normal. But if that kind of relationship should hold between the median city lord and the richest region lords, something is seriously wrong.

[Chenier]

Chenier, the calculation was done for cities, doesn't matter which continent it's on, cities have similar stats.

Sure, you can argue all you want that additional gold generated by additional population must go somewhere else. When it comes down to it, you're expecting to do everything with a city when it is in an area with a low access to supplies of surplus food as when it is in an area with tons of surplus food.

By the way, by data I meant population, food consumption, production, gold values, tax rates, that kind of thing. Surely that data cannot be lost?

I am not longer lord of Paisly and the numbers have since changed.

[Foundation]

I see, that is unfortunate. :(

[Anaris]

If we're comparing the richest city lords to the poorest region lords, sure, a 5x difference after food sales is perfectly normal. But if that kind of relationship should hold between the median city lord and the richest region lords, something is seriously wrong.

Why on earth would we not make our comparisons between the median city and median rurals?

[Chenier]

Some times it's just a bunch of factors, like management.  For instance, on BT, Hvrek was once lord of Lopa when this new system kicked in.  His food sales paid for investments.  As a priest/diplomat, he stayed in his region to maintain it at 25% tax with constant investments for as long as he felt like.  He ended up on average with around 1k gold a week, after investment costs.  Lopa's stats on region page were 400 some gold and 500 some food.  Food was sold somewhere along the lines of 20-30 gold per 100 bushels.

Other factors come in play, too... like tax rate, which itself is linked to distance from the capital. Not every city is the capital. Also, not every city lord is a duke (which could simply tax his vassals to compensate for high food prices, if he was buying from them).

[Penchant]

Other factors come in play, too... like tax rate, which itself is linked to distance from the capital. Not every city is the capital. Also, not every city lord is a duke (which could simply tax his vassals to compensate for high food prices, if he was buying from them).

That last option is something I need to remember if I am ever duke/magrave though I doubt I will since I prefer townslands,  they are the city 2.0.

[Foundation]

Why on earth would we not make our comparisons between the median city and median rurals?

I'm only comparing the extremes to show how wrong it is to compare by extremes. (Which was how this gold comparison started and how it is continuing) I guess that in itself is wrong. ;)

[Indirik]

You troll so much, no one can tell when you're serious or trying to make subtle point. ;)

[Foundation]

Ah, the drawbacks of trolling. "Let us troll and troll some more, for tomorrow, no one will take us seriously anyways."

[Indirik]

Then, how many region lords making 300-400 gold from taxes have 400 bushels of surplus every single week?

As lord of Nimraw I cleared just under 350 gold last week. I wasn't even trying. I literally hadn't been in the region for over a month. I have no doubt I could have run the tax rate 3 or 4% higher if I felt like it, and wanted to deal with the hassle. I also run a surplus of 67 bushels per day. There are several regions (probably at least 5) on EC that are even better. Several more that are almost as good.

[Dante Silverfire]

I'd say on an average tax day as the 2nd richest city lord on Atamara, I make 800 gold (before food purchases).

This is with a 19% region tax rate though.

So, you can try and use that to compare to rural region lords, but I find it almost impossible to believe that I have a 5x ratio on even the worst rural regions. (After they sell their food)

[Chenier]

Chenier, the calculation was done for cities, doesn't matter which continent it's on, cities have similar stats.

Sure, you can argue all you want that additional gold generated by additional population must go somewhere else. When it comes down to it, you're expecting to do everything with a city when it is in an area with a low access to supplies of surplus food as when it is in an area with tons of surplus food.

By the way, by data I meant population, food consumption, production, gold values, tax rates, that kind of thing. Surely that data cannot be lost?

Actually, I did have an excel spreadsheet to help with realm food planning, which I just found... After the city's own production, Paisly needed 569,8 bushels per harvest. I think the taxes were probably around 12% at the time since I moved a lot. Unfortunately, I did not record wealth production values, but I do know I had quite a lot of infrastructure (Paisly had previously been the capital), and at between 2000 and 5000 CS of militia (probably closer to 2000 CS).

However, it'd be incorrect to assume that since Paisly needed 570 bushels per harvest, I could content myself with merely buying 570 bushels every harvest cycle. Because, as I've stated a ton of times... Dwilight has... Seasons! And there were no frigging sellers in winter. Nor in late Fall. As such, I had to pretty much buy ALL of the food I could find, whenever I could find it, with my spammed caravans to every corner I could reach. And I obviously had an open buy offer back at home for when traders returned. Usually, the traders' return coincided with when I could buy the most food, sometime in Fall I believe. Which meant that, since I could find absolutely 0 bushels of food to buy during all of winter and most of Spring (and some of Fall), during some tax cycles I was basically buying over 1500, 2000, or even 2500 bushels of food. If not more. After all, my city needed 4300 food to go through a year, 4300 food that had to mostly be bought within a rather limited time frame. With granaries that could support 2000, which we tried to fill as much as possible because we never knew from season to season if the sellers were still going to sell, none of the exporters being all that incredibly reliable. And none of this accounts for ridiculous rot or militia consumption. Because back then, upgrading from 2000 to 2500 granary capacity cost a TONLOAD. I had already spent ridiculous amounts just to get it that high, and in fall, I still needed to keep a lot more food than my granaries' capacity. So rot was a major concern, though we had not evaluated it's % (because the policy of buying everything we could we allowing us to barely make it through the winters, and we couldn't do better than buying everything, there wasn't much need to quantify such a variable and hard to measure number).

This was before the population rebalance, though, which made the food situation in D'Hara much better. But the manual food store depletions and food production reductions came after the rebalance, I believe, which basically came and negated all of the improvements and caused the greatest starvation D'Hara had ever faced. It was also before granaries became just another building that could be built for cheap, which had allowed me to increase granary capacity from 2000 to 6000 for a reasonable price.

(Fun fact: D'Hara had a yearly deficit of 11,895 bushels per year back then, with a granary capacity of probably around 7,000. Yearly values were used for all planning, because offers and food production was not reliable year-round and thus forward planning was necessary to survive winter)

[Psyche]

Eh, one thing I used to look at once food was introduced to BT was gold efficiency.   A city that produces 1,000 gold with 30,000 people could be more favorable than a city of 36,000 (25% more food required) that produces 1,100(10% higher income).  I don't remember the average consumption per population anymore, but you still need to check gold to population ratios some times to see if cities are on par with each other.

And trolling is only an issue when you've just finished off your bottle of vodka, and can JUST type, but not well.