Your Thoughts on Food and the Marketplace

[Indirik]

If we are going to try and model seasons, that may not be a bad idea. Reduced or no rot in winter, reduced rot in spring.

Although perhaps someone should try and see what the actual effect is. Some spreadsheet work should be quick enough to do.

[Azerax]

give me the food base food production values for Dwilight (and the rot rate if it is not in this thread already, I'm at working so I'm only glancnig here) and I'll make up the spreadsheet

[Tom]

This is a very interesting point.  In essence, rot is higher on Dwilight due to the seasons.  Considering technology back then, rot should be reduced during the winter since granaries don't have heat and the food would simply freeze, thus less rot.

Along those lines, should rot mirror the food production cycle?

I'm not entirely sure that's the case. You would need sub-zero temperatures to get a good freeze, while the constant partial freezing and thawing when temperatures hover around zero could cause more damage.

This is probably an interesting topic to research for someone with the interest.

[vonGenf]

I'm not entirely sure that's the case. You would need sub-zero temperatures to get a good freeze, while the constant partial freezing and thawing when temperatures hover around zero could cause more damage.

a.k.a. it works in Canada but not in Italy.

[Anaris]

a.k.a. it works in Canada but not in Italy.

And while we have some parts of the continents that look clearly tropical, others that look clearly arctic, and others that appear to be temperate zones, none of this information is actually stored in the database, so we currently have no way of determining whether a given area should freeze during the winter, have a rainy season, or just get chilly and annoying. (Or whatever else.)

[vonGenf]

And while we have some parts of the continents that look clearly tropical, others that look clearly arctic, and others that appear to be temperate zones, none of this information is actually stored in the database, so we currently have no way of determining whether a given area should freeze during the winter, have a rainy season, or just get chilly and annoying. (Or whatever else.)

Well, we do have weather zones, although there were not designed for this in mind.

However I agree that we get in complicated territory.

[Azerax]

a.k.a. it works in Canada but not in Italy.

Natural refrigeration (simply dig a hole in the ground) works well in a variety of places.  The temperature below ground is relatively constant as long as it is covered.  However, a granary is not below ground.

[Azerax]

Well, we do have weather zones, although there were not designed for this in mind.

However I agree that we get in complicated territory.

This is very true as we could easily preserve food through drying/smoking/salting, but then you add rats and other vermin.

[Foundation]

A good margrave will always have stockpiles. Assuming a 10 day margin. Since no one else seems to be doing the math, I'll show you what I mean. Seasons last 21 days. Let us consider rot for 1 year, 84 days. Let's assume that rot is 1% per day, we're a city with 20000 peasants, so a consumption of 40 per day. Each day new food arrives in proportion to the season. Thus with no season we assume 40 bushels arrives every day. With seasons, spring 30 bushels, summer 40 bushels, autumn 80 bushels, and winter, 10 bushels.

Total consumption over a year is 3360 bushels.

Without seasons:

We start with 400 bushels.
Every day we keep 10 * 40 + 40 - 40 = 400 bushels after consumption. 4 bushels rot every day for a total of 4 * 84 = 336 bushels.

With seasons:

We start with 400 bushels.
Spring - For 21 days, first day: 400 * 1% = 4 bushels rotten, 400 + 30 - 40 = 390 left. Similarly, after 21 days 190 bushels remain, and a total of 63 bushels lost to rot.
Summer - For 21 days, 190 bushels left, 40 production 40 consumption, 190 * 1% * 21 = 40 bushels rotten.
Autumn - For 21 days, first day: 190 * 1% = 1.9 bushels rotten, 190 + 80 - 40 = 230 left. Similarly after 21 days, 1030 bushels remain, and a total of 128 bushels lost to rot.
Winter - For 21 days, first day: 1030 * 1% = 10.3 bushels rotten, 1030 + 10 - 40 = 1000 left. Similarly after 21 days, 400 bushels remain, and a total of 150 bushels lost to rot.
63 + 40 + 128 + 150 = 381 bushels lost to rot, 45 bushels more than with seasons, over an entire game year, almost 3 months of real life time. A whopping 13% more rot than without seasons, and 1.3% of the year's consumption.

Please tell me how 1.3% more consumption averaged per day cripples your city.

Note: If you increase the original parameters by any factor, like multiply by 1.5 since your city has 30000 population, you'll get the same result. If you feel more comfortable to start out with a bigger stockpile, be my guest, and multiply that 400 by anything like 2, or 0.5 if you feel you don't need the stockpile, if you prefer 20 days of stockpile, you'll get the same result. It's 1.3% more consumption on average due to rot by seasons however you calculate it, for those interested.

[Foxglove]

I honestly haven't had any problems with the food system or marketplaces. I have a character running a city with 18,000 population on Atamara and have no problems at all finding food. I just buy when it's available to create a decent stockpile, or put up long-lasting buy orders if I know I'm going to be away from a market. The city has never even gone hungry.

On EC, I have a character running a rural region and there's always someone looking to buy food. I don't hear of any starvation within the realm.

Far East might be a different story because several cities often seem to be on the verge of starvation. But I think that's more to do with food management through the seasons, or the politics of who sells to who, than it is to do with the nature of the markets. The one big problem was when Osaliel went rogue due to starvation because the Margrave wasn't putting up any buying orders (or in fact acting in any way at all), but seemed to be logging in often enough to avoid the auto-pause. But, again, that wasn't really the fault of the food system or markets.

[Indirik]

63 + 40 + 128 + 150 = 381 bushels lost to rot, 45 bushels more than with seasons, over an entire game year, almost 3 months of real life time. A whopping 13% more rot than without seasons, and 1.3% of the year's consumption.

That's good to know. I'm glad that someone finally got a chance to run the numbers.

[Penchant]

Your math is off though.  Your definition of having a ten day supply is having 10 days worth of of food once, not on a consistent basis, which would also make the size of the supply matter, ie it would be different with a havi g 20 day supply.

[Foundation]

I should specify it's 10 days' supply at the start of each year and at the end. Changing that to 20 does not change the result one bit. Notice you must choose 1 spot in the year to fix, otherwise you can't compare with seasons and without seasons in any meaningful way since you can't influence what regions produce (i.e. the daily +40 that comes in which varies per season).

The math is not off. Perhaps the assumptions should be stated more clearly.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I honestly haven't had any problems with the food system or marketplaces. I have a character running a city with 18,000 population on Atamara and have no problems at all finding food. I just buy when it's available to create a decent stockpile, or put up long-lasting buy orders if I know I'm going to be away from a market. The city has never even gone hungry.

On EC, I have a character running a rural region and there's always someone looking to buy food. I don't hear of any starvation within the realm.

Far East might be a different story because several cities often seem to be on the verge of starvation. But I think that's more to do with food management through the seasons, or the politics of who sells to who, than it is to do with the nature of the markets. The one big problem was when Osaliel went rogue due to starvation because the Margrave wasn't putting up any buying orders (or in fact acting in any way at all), but seemed to be logging in often enough to avoid the auto-pause. But, again, that wasn't really the fault of the food system or markets.

That's a very small city.l

[Indirik]

FEIs cities are very small, and require significantly smaller food imports than other islands.