Religious freedom?

[Ramiel]

hmmmm I wonder, Consider the fact the Catholic Church or its denominations never happened.... would the Medieval Age then have religious, spiritual, sexual, racial freedoms and unbias?

I ask because we are meant to emulate MA, but we have no overarching religion... it leaves many things possible no?

[Fleugs]

Look to places where the Catholic Church was not present, and ask if there were these forms of freedom. The muslims weren't very big fans of religious freedom except for on the Iberian peninsula and perhaps some other small areas. The Africans mostly had their own religions, in case they did not have Islam or Catholicism, and their societies were so small that another religion was mostly out of the question. Going further to the east you could argue that buddhism and hinduism (and shintoism) sort-of had a mixed existence in some bordering areas, but in general the rule of thumb is that a society would only tolerate one religion, as it views another faith a danger to its roots and civilization.

It is easy for a modern-day cultivated mind to suspect that "what if", the world might be like it is today. But it isn't, simply. Humanity constantly evolves, and within that evolution ideas and concepts change. So do the concepts about religion. Speaking general terms, religious freedom was actually "invented" in Europe. Or at least the religious freedom as we interpret it today.

[Lorgan]

Unless there emerges a religion that resembles the Catholic Church in such a way that it is strong enough to dominate the realm and enforce it's views on it, I wouldn't say that religious freedom is off-limits as such dominance has to grow naturally.
Before the Catholic Church became that powerful in Europe, I don't think it mattered much whether one worshipped German, Celtic, Roman or Christian Gods as long as he pledged his sword and his loyalty to you. Why would a non-pious King care which religion his subjects follow as long as they follow him?

[Shizzle]

Unless there emerges a religion that resembles the Catholic Church in such a way that it is strong enough to dominate the realm and enforce it's views on it, I wouldn't say that religious freedom is off-limits as such dominance has to grow naturally.
Before the Catholic Church became that powerful in Europe, I don't think it mattered much whether one worshipped German, Celtic, Roman or Christian Gods as long as he pledged his sword and his loyalty to you. Why would a non-pious King care which religion his subjects follow as long as they follow him?

Meh, in the migration periods maybe. I don't think the Kings were still so tolerant after . Look at Clovis after 500AD.

[vonGenf]

Meh, in the migration periods maybe. I don't think the Kings were still so tolerant after . Look at Clovis after 500AD.

Look at britain before 1066?

I think the BM period encompasses more than "Christian Europe"; its time and geographic period includes the Viking realms, for example.

If you look at Paris only, yes; if you look everywhere after 1200, yes; but there's a big chunk you're missing if you're only looking there.

[Lorgan]

Clovis converted in 500 yes, but did he then demand that all his "lords" followed his faith as well?

And if he did, he must've been a pious ruler... ;)

[Fleugs]

Clovis converted in 500 yes, but did he then demand that all his "lords" followed his faith as well?

And if he did, he must've been a pious ruler... ;)

No... but yes. He didn't do it by force but every lord was smart enough to follow the religion of his liege, if he wished any favours. Besides Clovis didn't convert alone... he was accompanied by a lot of other members of the nobility. It's a prime example of top-down conversion. down-top exists too but mostly goes with, well, lot's of slaughtering.

[Bedwyr]

While there's something to be said for having everyone united by one religion, there's also a lot to be said for balance of powers.  If there are two powerful, multi-realm religions nearby, rather than pick one and invite it in I might just as well invite both and mediate, so that the religions have to play nice with me.

[Chenier]

While there's something to be said for having everyone united by one religion, there's also a lot to be said for balance of powers.  If there are two powerful, multi-realm religions nearby, rather than pick one and invite it in I might just as well invite both and mediate, so that the religions have to play nice with me.

All depends on your ties with leaders of said faiths.

Not to mention that "balance", in some cases, is called "civil war".

[Bedwyr]

All depends on your ties with leaders of said faiths.

Not to mention that "balance", in some cases, is called "civil war".

Only in some cases, and sometimes, you might want a civil war...Convenient way to rid yourself of too-powerful opponents, after all, so long as you still control the appointments.

[Morningstar]

Who will be the Aenilic Martin Luther?

Its original founder is working on a big overhaul. If Huntmaster ever gets unpaused to take over as General again, that is.

[Bedwyr]

Its original founder is working on a big overhaul. If Huntmaster ever gets unpaused to take over as General again, that is.

And, ah, there's at least one major Ruler who would be happy to support the establishment of such an overhaul...Assuming he likes it, of course.

[Morningstar]

And, ah, there's at least one major Ruler who would be happy to support the establishment of such an overhaul...Assuming he likes it, of course.

I believe said ruler is the only one who's heard of this plan thus far.

[Chenier]

Only in some cases, and sometimes, you might want a civil war...Convenient way to rid yourself of too-powerful opponents, after all, so long as you still control the appointments.

Too powerful opponents, by definition, might be powerful enough to then crush you.

And a faction in balance in your realm might see significant support from a neighboring realm where it is not "in balance".

Balancing powers over which you have no or little control is often a good idea, but one shouldn't do it just in any way and always expect it to be the best solution either.

[Bedwyr]

Indeed.  I never claimed it was always, or even often, a good plan.  It can be, though, and I'm seeing possibilities for it on Dwilight for some of the central realms.