Averoth OOC conflicts with GM

[Raviel Armityle]

Wow, Lex complained, his message got deleted.

Puts me in mind of "Lex got successful in Averoth, then he got deported".

[Bedwyr]

All these accusations are completely ridiculous, and no self respecting player should believe them.

Several of us have seen multis and other behaviour that is similar to this.  However, I've also seen behaviour like this that wasn't due to multis, and the only abuse that has been substantiated was the eminently provable family gold loophole in Thulsoma.

[Bedwyr]

Wow, Lex complained, his message got deleted.

Puts me in mind of "Lex got successful in Averoth, then he got deported".

He violated the rules on how to appeal Titan decisions and used extremely abusive language.  Those are the two reasons why it was deleted.

[Raviel Armityle]

Several of us have seen multis and other behaviour that is similar to this.  However, I've also seen behaviour like this that wasn't due to multis, and the only abuse that has been substantiated was the eminently provable family gold loophole in Thulsoma.

Well, if it was a loophole, then WHY didn't you fixed the loophole? Not bar access.

Stop the mass generating gold supply, instead of having some ridiculous comment from your "Aunt", who is apparently now some sort of critic fitting to tell a highly reputed and successful General to essentially "Get a job".

[Zakilevo]

I don't understand why people are so pissed about the whole deal. We should all just calm down and try to play the game. You cannot win in this game as Tom stated so don't try to win it omg!

[Bedwyr]

Well, if it was a loophole, then WHY didn't you fixed the loophole? Not bar access.

Stop the mass generating gold supply, instead of having some ridiculous comment from your "Aunt", who is apparently now some sort of critic fitting to tell a highly reputed and successful General to essentially "Get a job".

The loophole was closed.  The aunt code now takes into account your balance with your family, and the endless regeneration is gone.  The fact that your balance is so negative is the issue.  Still works for people without balance problems.

[Raviel Armityle]

I don't understand why people are so pissed about the whole deal. We should all just calm down and try to play the game. You cannot win in this game as Tom stated so don't try to win it omg!

Well your not the one being threatened with deletion because your IC opponents can't separate IC differences, from OOC.

[ó Broin]

All these accusations are completely ridiculous, and no self respecting player should believe them.

There is NOTHING suspicious about the number of nobles in Averoth. Before Thulsoma's fall, Thulsoma had 25 nobles, and Averoth had 26, Thulsoma banned about five of them, and executed 1, Averoth lost a few also. The current number of Averothian nobles is derived from a mixture of original Averothian's, 15 of the 25 Thulsomans, some defectors from Astrum and Libero Empire, and a few others from Summerdale and Caerwyn. By sheer mathematics, the number is actually lower than it should be if we are all multiple accounts, and if we were multiple accounts, don't you think we'd be doing better?

As for our fast movement rates, well like Lex said, if you live in Europe, then Turn change conveniently comes just after the time you get home from school, or work, whereas the morning turn change happens before you get up, generally. So late turn moves are far from suspicious, besides which, Thulsoma always had excellent movement rates, and late turn movements, and so did Averoth. If you like, I can copy half a dozen orders from Sextus where he clearly orders us to make a later turn move as possible, or only sends the orders an hour or two before turn change. So to sum up, there is absolutely nothing suspicious about our numbers of nobles, or their movement.

Lets compare it to Astrum, Astrum had 42 nobles before the war with Averoth, now they have 62, that's an increase of around 20 nobles, and Thulsoma only gave Averoth an increase of 15 nobles, and yet it is somehow suspicious when Thulsoma joins Averoth? But not when Astrum gets an even greater number of nobles? Where else was Thulsoma going to go? IC we hate Summerdale, Libero Empire wouldn't agree to our terms, Caerwyn were to complacent, and Averoth was our only ally, the only realm that helped us and defended us, and the only realm that was fighting our enemies. Besides which, Averoth is a genuinely pleasant realm to be in, by contrast the prevailing image we get of the SA realms, is that they are all very bitchy and rude, with no roleplays and no fun wars. There is nothing at all fun in fighting a gang war on a tiny three region realm when combined you control most of the continents wealth and military power, BUT it is insanely fun to fight the fight of an underdog against impossible odds, that's why so many nobles loved Thulsoma, ignoring the epic roleplay, friendly atmosphere and fun players, the war was incredible. It was a heady sort of awesome to be a badass "no nonsense" sort of realm that said to the continent leaders that they can shove their influence up their arse and leave us alone, I can tell you, realms that are subservient in those situations sicken me, but they are also the norm, which is another reason why Thulsoma was at times hilarious, I can remember multiple instances where I and a lot of other members in the realm burst out laughing at some remark or other about continental happenings.

By sheer comparison, Averoth and Thulsoma make for better realms than the SA realms. They have a good sense of community and friendship, they have roleplays and a fun war, and they have players who go out of their way to make you feel welcome and to become your friends. SA realms just seem really grumpy and moody, a bunch of complacent players sitting around doing nothing, never saying anything, until there is a chance of them to have a massive gang war. Looking at it objectively, the war on Thulsoma was utterly pathetic, and so is the war on Averoth, but what's truly pathetic is all the Out of Character griping coming from Astroism, why? Because we're defending ourselves, we're not rolling over and dying. Would you like the war to last a month and be no challenge at all? Or like Thulsoma, a war that lasts over a year and has the biggest battles ever seen on the continent, and has the best roleplay and contributes the most to the continent? It's ridiculous, it really does seem like SA is super pissy because they aren't getting their own way, which is to say, having everything come easy to them on demand.

I was there in Thulsoma when we were actually shown messages of SA discussing how to get Thulsoma banned, it was sickening.

"Oh, they once tried to merge, can we get them banned for that?"
"They claim to be Saxons, can we report them for that?"
"Is their religion a copy of Anglo Saxon  Paganism, isn't that punishable by game rules?"
"They usurped the realm, they aren't allowed to do that!"

And yes, I am not !@#$ting you, these were ACTUAL messages shown to us Out of Character about stuff being said in Astromancy. Did we bitch about it? No. Did we ever resort to OOC insults and accusations? No. When some player in SA, put obvious multiple accounts into Thulsoma to have them rebel, did we do all we could to have all the SA realms deleted? No, we treated it entirely In Character, and if the player behind it is reading, they surely remember that we used their obvious OOC multiple accounting as an excuse to make epic roleplays, execute a Morekian and demand death duels from them.

Thulsoma and Averoth, are better realms run by better players, the best in the game in my opinion. If nothing else, we go out of our way to accommodate friend or foe, to make the best out of a bad situation. Those in Astrum can see that, I got moved to Astrum by a bug, did I bitch about it? No, I used it as a perfect chance to RP and get Astrum to RP back to me, I at least had fun, I hope some of you in Astrum did as well.

If Averoth gets ban hammered for this clear OOC prejudice and lies, then I won't ever return to this game. I am fed up of listening to spiteful and petty players trying to destroy everything we worked so hard to make, the work of years of effort and mutually collaboration just because they cannot get their own way in the game.

I swear this game is rocketing downhill because of some players determined to destroy us on any level possible.

You created a forum account just for that post? Amusing. To me its not that the number of players in Averoth implies multies. It is that the standard game mechanics are not designed for a realm of that size to support that many nobles with a reasonable income. Sure I'm aware of many ways to work around that, but to me and I suppose other players, that is pretty much against the spirit of the game. Like Tom has said, the game is meant to be played as if you are playing a board game with friends.

To me a largish group of players, that purposely play together in realms because they know they are super effective together, who have admitted to attempting to unravel the game mechanics in what appears to be  a manner similar to the worst excesses of min/max of MMORPG games etc is not behavior I would expect from my friends in a board game. Nor is the constant complaints of a OOC conspiracy based on such flimsy evidence. If the devs and Titans had any interest in destroying you, don't you just think they would declare half the realm multies and lock the accounts?

When you have 50 nobles supported by two regions people are going to be suspicious. Some people are going to take those suspicions too far and make unfounded accusations. When you react like a bunch of kids throwing a tantrum, you are simply going to reinforce the idea amongst those that are already pre-disposed to believe it.

[Bedwyr]

Well your not the one being threatened with deletion because your IC opponents can't separate IC differences, from OOC.

You are not being threatened with anything.  You may have heard OOC crap, I have no firsthand knowledge of that, but I can assure you that if you were being threatened, you'd have a bright shiny golden message from the Titans with the threat.

Now are you going to calm down and discuss this like a reasonable person?

[Raviel Armityle]

You created a forum account just for that post? Amusing. To me its not that the number of players in Averoth implies multies. It is that the standard game mechanics are not designed for a realm of that size to support that many nobles with a reasonable income. Sure I'm aware of many ways to work around that, but to me and I suppose other players, that is pretty much against the spirit of the game. Like Tom has said, the game is meant to be played as if you are playing a board game with friends.

To me a largish group of players, that purposely play together in realms because they know they are super effective together, who have admitted to attempting to unravel the game mechanics in what appears to be  a manner similar to the worst excesses of min/max of MMORPG games etc is not behavior I would expect from my friends in a board game. Nor is the constant complaints of a OOC conspiracy based on such flimsy evidence. If the devs and Titans had any interest in destroying you, don't you just think they would declare half the realm multies and lock the accounts?

When you have 50 nobles supported by two regions people are going to be suspicious. Some people are going to take those suspicions too far and make unfounded accusations. When you react like a bunch of kids throwing a tantrum, you are simply going to reinforce the idea amongst those that are already pre-disposed to believe it.

Well, use your imagination, there are more ways to get gold than through tax days. That said, we looted more than a thousand gold from Astrum, in effect.

Besides, how can you rule out foreign backing from realms to affraid to fight themselves?

[Raviel Armityle]

You are not being threatened with anything.  You may have heard OOC crap, I have no firsthand knowledge of that, but I can assure you that if you were being threatened, you'd have a bright shiny golden message from the Titans with the threat.

Now are you going to calm down and discuss this like a reasonable person?

I am discussing it.

And by all accounts, we were threatened. Tom told us to give up our accounts as multi's or he'll take them out.

[Bedwyr]

I am discussing it.

And by all accounts, we were threatened. Tom told us to give up our accounts as multi's or he'll take them out.

By what accounts?  Did you receive notice from Tom himself?  Did you receive an official Titan warning?

[Raviel Armityle]

By what accounts?  Did you receive notice from Tom himself?  Did you receive an official Titan warning?

I mean the term.

"By all accounts he said he would"

Kind of thing, accounts as in, your recounting.

[Bedwyr]

I mean the term.

"By all accounts he said he would"

Kind of thing, accounts as in, your recounting.

Did you, or did you not, receive a message directly from Tom or the Titans?

[ó Broin]

Well, use your imagination, there are more ways to get gold than through tax days. That said, we looted more than a thousand gold from Astrum, in effect.

Besides, how can you rule out foreign backing from realms to affraid to fight themselves?

Like I said, I can see way of doing it, but personally don't agree with most of them. Its just an opinion. And no, I doubt that on Dwilight, given the military strength the possible realms that would want to oppose Astrum, that such a force could be funded properly from Foreign Backing. I could be wrong, but I have a hard time seeing it.