Special Forces, underpowered?

[Foundation]

4.  Fix special forces.  They suck atm cost per unit and cs/damage output.

I do not find this to be true.  Please provide suitable data to support your claim.

[Dobromir]

I do not find this to be true.  Please provide suitable data to support your claim.

With regards to this I provided Delvin with the information

At best SF deal double damage in rounds (this isnt even every round and has to be a SF bonus)  This double damage would make them on par with infantries considering same armor/weapons and gold spent (obviously SF cost more then twice as much per man)

Armor wise SF die just as fast as infantry do no bonus thus they flop they have 1/2 a much men thus 1/2 as much hits and SF in this category are only half as good as infantry thus comes my my ratios.

I doubt I have all the data I used to have but I should still have some.  It would be long and hard to read for most people however.

[Peri]

4.  Fix special forces.  They suck atm cost per unit and cs/damage output.

Well I think special forces are kinda ok as they are now.

It is true that infantry perform better than sf money wise, but SF, with their very elevated cs/man, can perform different tasks with respect to infantry. What I believe it's wrong is expecting they would be as good as infantry in making up numbers in the average battle.

[Dobromir]

Well I think special forces are kinda ok as they are now.

It is true that infantry perform better than sf money wise, but SF, with their very elevated cs/man, can perform different tasks with respect to infantry. What I believe it's wrong is expecting they would be as good as infantry in making up numbers in the average battle.

I would be nice if people focussed more on the post as a whole rather then SF especially since most people see only the large amounts of hits.  Combat systems re-vamp is mostly based on settings and fixing defensive attitude which is the point of this not SF.  If needed I'll make SF a separate thread.

[loren]

I think people need to remember that special forces have unique modifiers for certain damage outputs and for what they take.  For instance, Fontan's Close Combat Fighters are known to be really giant pincushions (steep reduction in ranged hits/casualty ratio, but able to soak up huge amounts of melee hits from infantry.  They also do incredible amounts of dmg in melee.  (Calvary they're just ok against)

For the majority of SF's I don't think it's known how they specialize.  Some might do better against fortifications ( a built in siege engine modifier for instance ).  Others do incredible damage to fortifications etc.

Don't discount the special modifiers.  That's what makes them special.

[Anaris]

I think people need to remember that special forces have unique modifiers for certain damage outputs and for what they take.  For instance, Fontan's Close Combat Fighters are known to be really giant pincushions (steep reduction in ranged hits/casualty ratio, but able to soak up huge amounts of melee hits from infantry. 

Really?  Fascinating.

[Gustav Kuriga]

The problem is, how do you know what special ability you are getting? I have never used special forces, so forgive me if I sound ignorant, but I have never seen it listed on the recruitment screen that such and such SF has such and such bonus.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

You're not supposed to. It might not make sense since you could ask them...But hey, what do they know, right?

The intention might have been to be observant in battle, and with enough experience, you'd be able to know what they do, sort of. Also, their special abilities don't seem to activate every battle (maybe they forgot their special equipment for that battle).

[Anaris]

I think it would be extremely informative if someone made a study of these special abilities, even the ones that are already known, such as those that Loren mentioned.

Put up on the Wiki a listing of what special abilities have been identified, which centers have which ones, how often they "activate", and what the evidence is that they have activated.

That should provide a really good baseline.

[egamma]

I know that the Barony of Makar has two special forces. One has a cavalry charge, so I guess they are special cavalry, and the other...ah, I forget. I think the Mystic Monks may have an artillery feature that does extra damage to fortifications, maybe.

[Thunthorn]

One center I know about provides berserkers. Their damage output increases greatly as the battle progresses.

[Anaris]

I know that the Barony of Makar has two special forces. One has a cavalry charge, so I guess they are special cavalry, and the other...ah, I forget. I think the Mystic Monks may have an artillery feature that does extra damage to fortifications, maybe.

One center I know about provides berserkers. Their damage output increases greatly as the battle progresses.

OK, well, can you document these effects?

It's important to be able to isolate and verify the special abilities.  Otherwise it's all just rumours and guesswork.

Also, it would be extremely useful to know just what, precisely, their effects really are.

[LilWolf]

OK, well, can you document these effects?

It's important to be able to isolate and verify the special abilities.  Otherwise it's all just rumours and guesswork.

Also, it would be extremely useful to know just what, precisely, their effects really are.

During all my years of playing the game, I've witnessed maybe 1 or 2 special abilities for special forces. Documenting these isn't exactly easy since it can take quite a bit of time to land in enough battles to witness them do anything special. Pretty sure Darka has had a SF center for years that has been used and still no one knows what their special thing is.

I've had a SF unit for a while now and the most special thing they do is act like Mixed Infantry in battle. Maybe they're the other kind of special..  ;D

[Foundation]

During all my years of playing the game, I've witnessed maybe 1 or 2 special abilities for special forces. Documenting these isn't exactly easy since it can take quite a bit of time to land in enough battles to witness them do anything special. Pretty sure Darka has had a SF center for years that has been used and still no one knows what their special thing is.

I've had a SF unit for a while now and the most special thing they do is act like Mixed Infantry in battle. Maybe they're the other kind of special..  ;D

I'd really appreciate any documented occurrences of these "special abilities".  8)

[loren]

I used Carelia's 95/95/100 for a short while.  They appear to be better in larger frays, doing more damage the more combat that is around them.  Character died before I could really look at it more closely.