Food/gold Rebalance

[Zakilevo]

Would it surprise you if I asked that you decrease the size of Golden Farrow?  ;)

Income along with it ;)

[Gustav Kuriga]

Would it surprise you if my knights would make more gold than me if it weren't for the 10% I take from their taxes?

[Charles]

Efficiency is best when knights earn slightly more than the lord.

[Zakilevo]

Efficiency is best when knights earn slightly more than the lord.

Once their efficiency is good you tax your knights for 50% ;)

[Dante Silverfire]

Once their efficiency is good you tax your knights for 50% ;)

So they leave?

Ya, that's a terrible idea.

[Zakilevo]

They really leave? I tax my knights for 50% in all my regions and they seem to stick around.

[Chenier]

Would it surprise you if my knights would make more gold than me if it weren't for the 10% I take from their taxes?

No, because:

Efficiency is best when knights earn slightly more than the lord.

[^ban^]

None of the numbers are finalized yet. We are going into this with the goals of making things more sensible and more fun.

Overall, it looks likely that total food and gold production will go up somewhat. This doesn't mean that everyone's food and gold will go up: some regions will go down, others up, but the net result will be slightly higher overall for both.

Indeed, one of the problems we've been fighting somewhat is that occasionally, the equations produced values of 0 food for certain regions ;D

Actually, it's more likely that the net food produced for every island -- except Dwilight -- will be reduced.

[vonGenf]

Would it surprise you if my knights would make more gold than me if it weren't for the 10% I take from their taxes?

The tax system is there to be used. It seems perfectly normal to me.

[Dante Silverfire]

We have tried to be more dynamic than that. If it turned out that something was too out of line, then we looked for a different way to calculate things, or changed the shape of the curve.

Okay, I just wanted to offer a suggestion. If it turned out that you really liked your formula under most circumstances, there are always ways to make a slight adjustment for negative outliers such as these mentioned.

They really leave? I tax my knights for 50% in all my regions and they seem to stick around.

I would leave if my lord wasn't providing me with a reasonable tax share. I tax my knights at 15%, and am about to drop it to 10%.

The idea imo, is to encourage knights to come to my region, not encourage them to leave. I want my knights to have as much gold as possible, so they become loyal knights. I don't need gold, I need knights. They are more important in general both for me and my realm.

[Penchant]

I would leave if my lord wasn't providing me with a reasonable tax share. I tax my knights at 15%, and am about to drop it to 10%.

The idea imo, is to encourage knights to come to my region, not encourage them to leave. I want my knights to have as much gold as possible, so they become loyal knights. I don't need gold, I need knights. They are more important in general both for me and my realm.

Personally I think arguing that taxing a certain percentage is bad, that just means the other person is greedy. It shouldn't be about how much you could receive but how much you are receiving, IMO. (That is not supposed to be an insult if it sounded like one.)

[Zakilevo]

Meh. My knights aren't complaining. They all get at least 100 gold. They don't need that much gold anyway. If they want gold for military reasons, they can get enough gold from their marshals. That is what a military fund is for. I don't play as a loyal knight because my lord pays me a lot. Getting 50 gold per week is perfectly fine as long as the lord interact with me often.

[Dante Silverfire]

Personally I think arguing that taxing a certain percentage is bad, that just means the other person is greedy. It shouldn't be about how much you could receive but how much you are receiving, IMO. (That is not supposed to be an insult if it sounded like one.)

No that makes sense. The percentage itself really doesn't matter. It is more efficient to tax a higher percentage and give knights more prior to the tax.

And nothing wrong with being greedy. Some people are greedy for gold, some are greedy for knights. I'm the latter. It's a direct trade off sometimes. Sometimes you get both. But this is getting off topic, I think.
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Back on topic:

Just wondering, is it possible to get an idea of what all types of values have been able to be drawn from the game. I think this is really cool to establish a formula that bases its results purely off in-game established values with the exception of max pop. (Which I'm fine being arbitrary). I know some were mentioned earlier in the thread. Of particular interest was the mention of things like length of coast line.

I would guess then that coastlines have a positive benefit on income, due to increased trade and fishing economy? Or perhaps coastlines increase food production due to access to water, or perhaps that is just rivers.

[Indirik]

We use things like region type, location, presence and type of coastline, percentage of coastline, and I think a couple other things, to allocate population to different sectors of the economy. This determines what percentage of the population does each different thing, such as mining, farming, fishing, hunting, manufacturing, trade, etc. This is modified by quality of that sector for that type. I.e. you can farm in a badlands, but it's not very effective. Fishing in the ocean is great, and better than fishing on a river. The food and gold income from each sector is then calculated. So you can get both food and gold from, say, hunting. But mining only brings in gold. Some of these are further modified by other things, such as population density. Adding together the food and gold produced by all the sectors gives you the final food and gold values for the region.

If we ever do introduce other goods, such as wood and stone, this gives us an easy way to determine which regions produce how much of each, as we already know how many peasants work each sector, and how good that sector is in that region.

[Dante Silverfire]

Okay, that is awesome.