Message #98774

[Indirik]

It is important to note that this food rebalancing is not just an attempt to balance food. It is something that has been percolating on and off for months. It was enabled by Tom's implementation of the new dynamic map, and all the features and stats it allows us to generate. It does not solely focus on food, but on gold as well. It is also not simply a balancing, but a complete recalculation of both gold and food. We use procedural methods to derive the new values from the actual characteristics of the region, and not just pull numbers out of a hat. Anaris and ban have done a *lot* of work on it the past few days.

While this has been something that has been floating around for a while, the recent debates have brought it to the front. It is also important to note that this will affect all islands and all regions.

[MediumTedium]

It is important to note that this food rebalancing is not just an attempt to balance food. It is something that has been percolating on and off for months. It was enabled by Tom's implementation of the new dynamic map, and all the features and stats it allows us to generate. It does not solely focus on food, but on gold as well. It is also not simply a balancing, but a complete recalculation of both gold and food. We use procedural methods to derive the new values from the actual characteristics of the region, and not just pull numbers out of a hat. Anaris and ban have done a *lot* of work on it the past few days.

While this has been something that has been floating around for a while, the recent debates have brought it to the front. It is also important to note that this will affect all islands and all regions.

Does that mean there will be no food shortages anymore? Will gold gain go down or up?

[Dante Silverfire]

Does that mean there will be no food shortages anymore? Will gold gain go down or up?

What it means is that the continents will be more standardized. It means that the gold and food values will be based more on formulas taken from actual region stats.

Gold and food will go both up and down if what I saw is correct. It will all depend upon where you are and what regions. I assume this is very similar to the region rebalances that we've seen before, except based upon new formula calculated values.

I'm not on the Dev Team though, so they can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Anaris]

None of the numbers are finalized yet. We are going into this with the goals of making things more sensible and more fun.

Overall, it looks likely that total food and gold production will go up somewhat. This doesn't mean that everyone's food and gold will go up: some regions will go down, others up, but the net result will be slightly higher overall for both.

Indeed, one of the problems we've been fighting somewhat is that occasionally, the equations produced values of 0 food for certain regions

[Dante Silverfire]

Indeed, one of the problems we've been fighting somewhat is that occasionally, the equations produced values of 0 food for certain regions

Is that a problem? I could see certain mountain type regions or perhaps certain cities or strongholds not producing any food.

[Anaris]

Is that a problem? I could see certain mountain type regions or perhaps certain cities or strongholds not producing any food.

No; even if it's hunting for rats in the cellar, we'd prefer if every region produced at least a little food.

(Some were even coming in negative...)

[Dante Silverfire]

Okay, I see how that can be an issue.

Can't you just restrict the values to have an absolute minimum? I don't know what sort of programming structure it would have but something as simple as: y = 5 + x, where {x:x=>0} and x is the function by which you determine food production?

Edit: Alternatively, could have an if/then statement sort of modifier.

x = formula for food production
y = food produced.

If x > 0,
       z = x,
else
       z = 0
end

y = 5 + z

[Indirik]

We have tried to be more dynamic than that. If it turned out that something was too out of line, then we looked for a different way to calculate things, or changed the shape of the curve.

All of this was enabled by Tom's latest dynamic map, and the region borders we drew. This let us calculate things like population density, length of coastline, percentage of coastline, and other such interesting things. The only arbitrary thing defined for a region is the max population. All the rest is procedurally derived from the actual properties of the region. It's pretty cool.

[Chenier]

The only arbitrary thing defined for a region is the max population. All the rest is procedurally derived from the actual properties of the region. It's pretty cool.

You did a pop rebalance in the past, nothing would prevent you from setting a standardized max pop, according to size of region and region type. You'd need a few different city "types", but it could work rather well. If you wish for max pop to also be procedurally derived.

[Indirik]

Reworking max pop is not something we're looking at right now unless there is a very specific reason a region would need to be modified.

[Zakilevo]

So when will this happen? Next month?

[Indirik]

ban is working as quickly as he can, and Anaris is helping as well, making some good tools to help with it. It may or may not make it this month. We still have to run the end results past Tom for approval. I'm sure these will be warning iin time for people to be prepared.

[Anaris]

ban is working as quickly as he can, and Anaris is helping as well, making some good tools to help with it. It may or may not make it this month. We still have to run the end results past Tom for approval. I'm sure these will be warning iin time for people to be prepared.

I'm not going to apply any rebalance results without significant advance warning.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Reworking max pop is not something we're looking at right now unless there is a very specific reason a region would need to be modified.

Would it surprise you if I asked that you decrease the size of Golden Farrow? 

[Indirik]

Not really. But so far, it's still a pretty sweet city.

I'm jealous.