Mendicant Cheating

[Tom]

As for Mendicant being entitled to return, considering all the praise he still gets in that realm... it's horrifying. He could create a new family, claim to be Mendicant's son, and get it all right back? Wonderful justice.

We never said THAT, stop choice-quoting!

He can make a new account and start from nothing.

If he comes back and re-claims his titles like you post, and is given them, we would lock everyone involved for 3 days and probably terminate his new account and tell him that "start from scratch" really does mean that.

[pcw27]

I'd add things like gold funneling (one or two active characters seem to end up with all the gold of 7 or 8 inactives scattered around). Maybe groups of people who move/work in unison with no apparent IG communication (although this would be harder to test by regular players).

The first one is completely beyond a player's ability to notice. The second is possible but very hard.

I'm under the impression that if there's enough reason for suspicion the GMs will look at the game code and find suspicious actions like that. My question is what can we as players look for. I mean very specifically. We need to know what's out of the ordinary. Otherwise we'll either be not reporting anything or reporting things which can't be verified.

[Vellos]

I'll tell you what I look for. I've flagged maybe 3 or 4 sets of multis in the last few years– admittedly failed to notice Twinblade despite playing in two realms with his multis, but, still.

1. Sequential or near-sequential user IDs
2. Lots of new accounts that are coordinated in user data, speech patterns, time-zone, e-mail address type, or realm-choices for other characters.
3. New characters with rapidly forming strong friendships, especially with other new players
4. Realms that are surviving against truly impossible odds (I'm thinking of Ordenstaat here)
5. Coordinated movement
6. Demands for special group treatment (message groups, armies, etc)
7. Large amounts of political support in elections where nobody voiced support for somebody or something
8. Any evidence of gold-hoarding or gold-funneling
9. Non-responsiveness to repeated personal messages, especially OOC messages or orders

--

NONE of these prove that somebody is a cheater, I want to be 100% clear. And any one or two of them are probably harmless. And sometimes they do mean SOMETHING, just not MULTIS: like maybe an old player returning to BM, or somebody who recruited some OOC friends.

But they're usually good places to look. Plus, sometimes you actually learn some fun stuff about other players. Usually when I see a couple red flags all at once, I OOC message the people and just ask about what drew them to Battlemaster, asking if they need any help, etc, etc. I've had times where somebody tells me, "Yeah, my friend told me I should come here and help him overthrow XYZ. I don't really know what's going on." And that's not cheating per se– but it's still definitely unfair play, in my not very humble and pretty radically anti-clan position that many Magistrates do not support.

But, just some thoughts on red flags you might look for.

Also, I am NOT a dev, so I do NOT know what they actually look for. I just know the results of reports I've filed.

[Wolfsong]

What's cheating here, and what isn't?

If I make multiple accounts, that's cheating. But if I recruit multiple friends to play the game, that's not cheating. Right? What if I get 10-11 friends to make accounts and send them specific orders through AIM/irc/facebook and they move according to those orders, not IC orders. Is that cheating, or is that legitimate? What separates this sort of play-style from multi-play? What if these friends play specifically and only because I need x many people before I can overthrow the current ruler of a realm and take over? Is that also legitimate? Is it still legitimate if they all delete their accounts after I have a position of power? What if I get 10 friends to create accounts to destroy the reputation of another player, because of a grudge I've held against one of their characters? What if I order these OOC friends to infiltrate the realms where that player's characters are, and systematically ruin them? What if I then tell them they can delete their accounts after that other character(s) (and player) is completely ripped apart? Still okay?

[Indirik]

I would probably dump an entire colony of fire ants in your bed.

But that's just me.

[Anaris]

What's cheating here, and what isn't?

If I make multiple accounts, that's cheating.

Yep. And none of those other things are.

Depending on the specific situation, some of them may be against the Social Contract, and should be brought up with the Magistrates.

But in all of those scenarios, there's an important random factor that you're not considering:

All those OOC friends you recruited to the game have the free choice to not follow your orders blindly.

I have actually, personally, seen at least one case where someone recruited OOC friends into the game to prop him up when it looked like he was going to be losing support and/or power—but one or more of them, upon joining, found that not only did they like the game, and not only was the job of propping up the OOC friend a bit harder than he may have made out, but they actually didn't want to prop him up once they knew the situation in-game.

[Zakilevo]

Well the simplest solution I see is disabling family gold to stop people from funnelling gold.

[vonGenf]

What's cheating here, and what isn't?

If I make multiple accounts, that's cheating. -Cheating

But if I recruit multiple friends to play the game, that's not cheating. Right? -That's fine

What if I get 10-11 friends to make accounts and send them specific orders through AIM/irc/facebook and they move according to those orders, not IC orders. Is that cheating, or is that legitimate? -Cheating

What separates this sort of play-style from multi-play? -There are multiple players.

What if these friends play specifically and only because I need x many people before I can overthrow the current ruler of a realm and take over? Is that also legitimate? -Legitimate. As Anaris said, they may end up liking the game! It's not encouraged though - try to use the tools you have within the game.

Is it still legitimate if they all delete their accounts after I have a position of power?  -That's still fine

What if I get 10 friends to create accounts to destroy the reputation of another player, because of a grudge I've held against one of their characters? -Abuse. Attack characters, not players.

What if I order these OOC friends to infiltrate the realms where that player's characters are, and systematically ruin them? -Abuse. Really, you give orders to your friends? Why do they listen to you?

What if I then tell them they can delete their accounts after that other character(s) (and player) is completely ripped apart? Still okay? -Abuse. The abuse is that you imply you would not let them delete their characters beforehand. What, you blackmail them?


See, it's quite easy. You're allowed to play the game with your friends. Your friends are allowed to play the game. Only if you stop playing the game and start using out-of-game means to gain an advantage, whether that's by cheating, circumventing the message system, or use your real-world connections to gain in-game advantage, does it become a problem.

I'm not a dev or magistrate by the way, but it seems to me these can be answered quite clearly just from the rules and social contract.

[Anaris]

What if I get 10-11 friends to make accounts and send them specific orders through AIM/irc/facebook and they move according to those orders, not IC orders. Is that cheating, or is that legitimate? -Cheating

Nope. Like I said, that's not cheating. It may be abusive, it may be a violation of the Social Contract, but in BattleMaster parlance, the only thing that's actually cheating is having anything other than a 1:1 correspondence between player and account.

[Indirik]

Using OOG methods to send orders is not good.

[vonGenf]

Nope. Like I said, that's not cheating. It may be abusive, it may be a violation of the Social Contract, but in BattleMaster parlance, the only thing that's actually cheating is having anything other than a 1:1 correspondence between player and account.

I could have sworn that using out-of-game means for secret communications was not allowed, as it bypasses the limitations on whom a character can talk to and cannot be discovered through torture, but I can't find the rule now.

Well, I still think it's not right.

[Anaris]

I could have sworn that using out-of-game means for secret communications was not allowed, as it bypasses the limitations on whom a character can talk to and cannot be discovered through torture, but I can't find the rule now.

Well, I still think it's not right.

If someone punishes you for not following out-of-game orders, they can be reported for it.

However, that doesn't mean that sending out-of-game orders is, in and of itself, prohibited.

[vonGenf]

If someone punishes you for not following out-of-game orders, they can be reported for it.

However, that doesn't mean that sending out-of-game orders is, in and of itself, prohibited.

Fair enough, that seems right.

[Vellos]

If someone punishes you for not following out-of-game orders, they can be reported for it.

However, that doesn't mean that sending out-of-game orders is, in and of itself, prohibited.

Um, what? It totally is.

[Geronus]

If someone punishes you for not following out-of-game orders, they can be reported for it.

However, that doesn't mean that sending out-of-game orders is, in and of itself, prohibited.

I'd still be inclined to frown upon such behavior as a Magistrate. Depending on the exact circumstances it could go against Tom's position on clanning, violate the activity IR, or generally amount to power gaming of the sort explicitly frowned upon in the Social Contract. It may not be explicitly against the Rules, but it violates the spirit of several of them. As a player, you shouldn't have to be on AIM 24-7 to get orders from your power-gaming General.