Rebalance Clarifications

[^ban^]

If they aren't food self-sufficient, this will be impossible.

I don't think there are any badlands that aren't self-sufficient...

[Chenier]

It'd be nice to be able to have one lord for multiple regions. For the badlands, at least. I wouldn't really want to see one dude lord of 4 cities, but if badlands are to become so bad that no knight would want to be sworn to them and that even lords would be poorer than rural knights, then maybe being lord or being a knight of a badland shouldn't exclude you from also having estates elsewhere.

One way to control this would be with population of estates: "nobles may have up to X peasants linked to their estates, and can pick up as many estates as they want until they reach this limit".

Just brainstorming here... 'cause leaving them lordless isn't an option in a realm that elects their lords. One day, an enemy will join the realm, join one of the spammed auto-referendums, and bring the region to the beighboring realm. On the other hand, putting a lord there sucks for him, as he'd lack the funds to participate in 90% of the game.

[Zakilevo]

How about making badland/mountain estates way more efficient than that of cities/townslands/rural regions?

[Bael]

http://www.battlemaster.org/testing/RegionDetails.php?ID=177 (Beluaterra)

Just got nerfed by 50%.

[Kain]

From what I've seen, if these specific values are held, most really large cities have increated a lot, and medium and poor cities have either increased little or got decreased. Many mountain-regions seems to have been decreased.

I just hope that there is good reasoning behind it. I understand unequality as an interesting game aspect, I'm just wondering what will happen when a realm owns a 4500 gold city which by itself produces more gold than the four medium cities the enemy has.

Wouldn't this make it very hard to sustain realms any other place than close to one of these "Alpha cities" (as opposed to medium or small cities)? What if one realm got ahold of two or three of these Alpha cities? Would they not be nearly unstoppable?

[Ketchum]

Interesting change, this will make it harder to hold the Mountain region.
I thought the region Economy will be taken into account.
Feel the next time someone will come complain we need feed the Mountain region, no longer need feed the cities. Most likely every island has Mountain region as rogue ::)

Economy: Mining, Hunting
Gold: 339 gold
Food: 29 bushels
Post-Rebalance Gold: 308 gold (-9%)
Post-Rebalance Food: 10 bushels (-66%)

[Faulcon_deLacy]

Linking food production to population makes sense, but it shouldn't be a simple increase based on population, needs to be more of a bell curve.

eg: say 1 hectare of land with 10 people produces 1 bushel of food.  Makes sense that 1 person would only be able to produce 0.1 bushels because they simply couldn't make full use of all the land.  Now cram 10000 people on that 1 hectare and say they can produce 1000 bushels?  No, they'd be lucky to produce the 1 bushel that 10 can because all the land would be required for living on, not producing food.  That's how it is with the cities.  Should be an optimal population density for food production and decline on either side of that, bit more complicated to actually put into practice but I'm sure you can find someone who likes maths to play with numbers and formulas.

[sharkattack]

From what I've seen, if these specific values are held, most really large cities have increated a lot, and medium and poor cities have either increased little or got decreased. Many mountain-regions seems to have been decreased.

I just hope that there is good reasoning behind it. I understand unequality as an interesting game aspect, I'm just wondering what will happen when a realm owns a 4500 gold city which by itself produces more gold than the four medium cities the enemy has.

Wouldn't this make it very hard to sustain realms any other place than close to one of these "Alpha cities" (as opposed to medium or small cities)? What if one realm got ahold of two or three of these Alpha cities? Would they not be nearly unstoppable?

I think so too, 2 "Alpha" cities would make any realm extremely unbalanced in comparison to the realms that have small or medium cities.

[Chenier]

Linking food production to population makes sense, but it shouldn't be a simple increase based on population, needs to be more of a bell curve.

eg: say 1 hectare of land with 10 people produces 1 bushel of food.  Makes sense that 1 person would only be able to produce 0.1 bushels because they simply couldn't make full use of all the land.  Now cram 10000 people on that 1 hectare and say they can produce 1000 bushels?  No, they'd be lucky to produce the 1 bushel that 10 can because all the land would be required for living on, not producing food.  That's how it is with the cities.  Should be an optimal population density for food production and decline on either side of that, bit more complicated to actually put into practice but I'm sure you can find someone who likes maths to play with numbers and formulas.

That's flawed logic. Sure, more people means less land, in theory, but rare are regions with 100% arable land, those extra people can be shuffled to put their houses on non-arable lands. More people, however, does mean more workforce, to plow the field, seed the field, weed the field, and then harvest the field. More people definitely means more tonnage per acreage.

[Faulcon_deLacy]

That's flawed logic. Sure, more people means less land, in theory, but rare are regions with 100% arable land, those extra people can be shuffled to put their houses on non-arable lands. More people, however, does mean more workforce, to plow the field, seed the field, weed the field, and then harvest the field. More people definitely means more tonnage per acreage.

Simplified sure but not really flawed.  The good land is not usually split into nice even parcels spread around for convenient use.  A real life example might be the Nile delta.  People didn't live in the desert and travel to the river each day to farm.  They live where they work and if you expect them to walk several miles each day between home and farm then don't expect to see more efficient production.  At best you could say perhaps the breaking point for populatin density is a bit higher (or that it doesn't cause production to decrease, merely causes it to plateau rather than increasing - still the best farming land is also generally the best living land).

[NireusD.Natalle]

Realm Fronen (Republic)
•Jyl (townsland)
Gold: 668 gold Rebalance: 410 gold (-39%)
Food: 90 bushels Rebalance: 82 bushels (-9%)
•Qrelg (townsland)
Gold: 666 gold Rebalance: 334 gold (-50%)
Food: 96 bushels Rebalance: 64 bushels (-33%)
•Wudenkin (City)
Gold: 1995 gold Rebalance: 3227 gold (+62%)
Food: 113 bushels Rebalance: 188 bushels (+66%)
•Ippetimbal (mountain)
Gold: 743 gold Rebalance: 898 gold (+21%)
Food: 50 bushels Rebalance: 28 bushels (-44%)


I don't know other realm but in fronen, other than the 3 mountain/city, suffer both gold & food decreases. Lord of Ippetimbal and wudenkin are same player. So it is unfair to people of Fronen; other loss many gold and Player of darkhouse region gain many gold. Our army sponsor also loss about 100 gold and this Post-Rebalance Gold has change the environment of Republic; only city and mountain will get new knight..

So I think please do something.. This is not Fun to let someone control all knight and control many gold... In Beluaterra, rural/town loss gold and food while city/mountain get extra gold and food.
Last question, when this City-Increases Gold will be approved?

[Terises Jr.]

•Jyl (townsland)
Gold: 668 gold Rebalance: 410 gold (-39%
Food: 90 bushels Rebalance: 82 bushels (-9%

just give me the town if you dont want.. :-D

[NireusD.Natalle]

just give me the town if you dont want.. :-D

haha.. Wait until I get city and you will get opportunity to have Jyl. :)

[Lefanis]

Lord of Ippetimbal and wudenkin are same player. So it is unfair to people of Fronen; other loss many gold and Player of darkhouse region gain many gold.
So I think please do something.. This is not Fun to let someone control all knight and control many gold...

Well, that's Fronens fault for concentrating the power so. Rebel/protest those greedy slobs out of their posts.

[Daimall]

Is there any rethinking about the general gold loss of small cities in Dwilight? I know they want to make the medium and big cities just better in general so people will greatly covet being lord of such a region, but aren't small cities suppose to be at least worthy targets as well? It depressing to see wealthy townsland regions that will have more gold then you as well as even more self-sufficient in food then the small cities. Its not like these cities are shown to be some sort of ruin after all.

If nothing else, small cities should at least have very high efficiency in estates, due to compact nature of their size and all.