On SA's political coalition: Pros, Cons, and Potential Action.

[Vellos]

Dude, I have been saying the same for quite some time now. No one in SA will listen. Nothing will change. Basically they want the entire map to be subservient to them or a colony of SA and only then will they fight amongst themselves (Like that will magically happen this decade) .  For the last few years that Dwilight has existed SA has only been concerned with one thing, maintaining a safe status quo / converting new realms and killing off any potential conflict that is between the theocracies. Cookie cutter continents and cultures...

So convert.

Every conversion is one more step to the post-hegemonic chaos of infighting.

It's not cookie cutter: no BM culture like SA has ever existed, and certainly never on such a scale as to dominate so vast an area as Dwilight.

Join! Join! Join!

[pcw27]

Other thing is: Let´s say a noble wants to become ruler of Astrum. But he is tired of the church, and leave it or is expelled.

Now Astrum as a Theocracy won't allow him to grow as a noble, and the fun for him will be ruined.

Again, leaving the realm is not an option, as the player loves the realm he is in. What he does not like is the Church.

So, because of this, he has to remain inside SA to be able to grow and prosper inside a realm he loves.

With time he can(will) lose his interest on Dwilight and can even leave the game.

This to me highlights the other side of the over all problem. People complain that players in power don't want to risk losing it. The only thing that allows this to be a problem is players not in power are afraid to try and overthrow them. People are quick to say "throw away an alliance", "risk the kingdom in a war". Well why don't YOU start a rebellion even if it's likely to fail? Secede a duchy even if your new realm will get crushed. It's hypocritical to claim the problem comes exclusively from the top down. If anything it's the people with less developed characters who should be taking the risks.

[Kwanstein]

The conservative trend of politics stems from this game's democratic nature. It's difficult to get a large group of people to agree on something that's new, unorthodox, risky or bold. Groups of three or more people have this problem; Battlemaster groups are composed of dozens. So of course this stagnation is merely the ultimate conclusion of design by committee.

In order to spice things up meaningfully the fundamentals of this game would have to change. More power would have to be given to individuals, and group consent would have to become a fashionable vice not an unwavering necessity for getting things done. Attempting to achieve anything under the current system is like rowing upstream, in that's it's difficult and requires constant effort and will be undone in less than a moment of laxness.

And it wouldn't hurt to add more virtual material incentives for the higher ups. Gold is nice and all but it's limits are stifling. More uses for gold, or additional rewards for successful intrigue (even in the form of e-peen metres, i.e. fame) would work. This isn't as big a problem as the aforementioned one but it's still a factor as realms that have it all have no reason to not lounge around stupidly.

[Chenier]

Terran declared war against a theocracy, fought a few battles, and then got peace, without ever being ganked. Did a superpower step in to reduce battles and fun? Yes. Was it SA? No. It was the Zuma.

SA only ever ganks people who go out of their way to get ganked.

Also, fun thing to put on your to-do list: become a duke in a non-theocracy, and secede to form a theocracy. Guaranteed win. Especially if you secede from the Lurias. :P

The north is only dull because it is simple-minded. "Oh, distance from capital is too big, morale damage is too high, thus we obviously can't do anything whatsoever!" There are a ton of things northern nobles could do, and some of them even include not actually migrating to another realm. Though seriously, you guys should really consider that.

[Naidraug]

This to me highlights the other side of the over all problem. People complain that players in power don't want to risk losing it. The only thing that allows this to be a problem is players not in power are afraid to try and overthrow them. People are quick to say "throw away an alliance", "risk the kingdom in a war". Well why don't YOU start a rebellion even if it's likely to fail? Secede a duchy even if your new realm will get crushed. It's hypocritical to claim the problem comes exclusively from the top down. If anything it's the people with less developed characters who should be taking the risks.

I have to disagree with you. At least partialy. The ruler of a realm is also responsable to make sure everyone is having fun. At least once in a while he should check. He is the ruler after all, he should oversee everything that happens inside and outside the realm.

He should also take risks and help changes, specially when you don't have elections all the time.

The ruler need to take the responsability as well. Rebellions are hard to make, specially if you are a "less developed character" and you have players that don't want to lead, but still want to have fun, and don't want to move to another realm or continent where he does not know everyone and will have to start all over again. It is not that simple.


And about the Zuma, I find it odd that on a island that the SMA is enforced you have daimons.

[Indirik]

But you don't have a problem with monsters and undead? ???

SMA is not about recreating the exact circumstances of medieval earth.

[Glaumring the Fox]

So convert.

Every conversion is one more step to the post-hegemonic chaos of infighting.

It's not cookie cutter: no BM culture like SA has ever existed, and certainly never on such a scale as to dominate so vast an area as Dwilight.

Join! Join! Join!

Not a chance in hell. I'd rather fight on the wrong side for the right ideals than to give into a form of playstyle I find so deeply wrong like the massive federations/alliances of SA. Its wrong wrong wrong and I will fight every day to see it stopped.

Moderator note: removing trolling and offtopic rant. If you want to tell people how great Asylon is, don't do it in an SA thread.

[Indirik]

Removing trolling. Resist the urge!

[Glaumring the Fox]

Fight the good fight! Some day you may actually bash a hole in the brick wall with your forehead. Never surrender!

Your kingdom is incapable of fightings its own battles. You are cowards.

[Indirik]

I don't have a kingdom.

[Indirik]

But, really, why the hostility? I'm just trying to make a friendly little joke. No need to break out the insults.

[Naidraug]

But you don't have a problem with monsters and undead? ???

SMA is not about recreating the exact circumstances of medieval earth.

I have a problem with them as well, just comenting specifically about the Zuma there.

[Glaumring the Fox]

But, really, why the hostility? I'm just trying to make a friendly little joke. No need to break out the insults.

I called your realm a realm of cowards, its not an insult if its true. Realm/ kingdom/ theocracy who gives a flying. Your realm is a cowardly realm that needs a huge alliance to fight an equal sized kingdom. You needed Morek. And now you got Niselur and Corsanctum to fight us and you still can't break us.Thats not an insult, its a fact.

[Indirik]

In response to the "clanning" thing, there is no way that SA resembles anything involving a clan. SA is an entirely IC organization. It has nothing at all involving on OOC component. It also is in no way exclusive. Anyone can join and take part. Advancement is not that difficult. It is extremely easy to participate, and anyone who tries at all can help shape and steer it. It is one of the most non-exclusive IG groups I've seen.

Does it try to exert its influence and will on other groups on the island? Of course. But it does so exclusively IC, via IC means, motives, and methods.

[Glaumring the Fox]

In response to the "clanning" thing, there is no way that SA resembles anything involving a clan. SA is an entirely IC organization. It has nothing at all involving on OOC component. It also is in no way exclusive. Anyone can join and take part. Advancement is not that difficult. It is extremely easy to participate, and anyone who tries at all can help shape and steer it. It is one of the most non-exclusive IG groups I've seen.

Does it try to exert its influence and will on other groups on the island? Of course. But it does so exclusively IC, via IC means, motives, and methods.

Yeah its not a clan... Get it right, its a cabal.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabal