Unnecessary Racist Slur

[Chenier]

I think this is the same case as RPing 'rape'. I mean it happened quite often during war times and although the subject offends some players when you are in SMA, you either just ignore it or just play along.

And my opinion of it is the same.

We are adults, and there's a difference to do between RPing children's playbook angels and going into tasteless debauchery.

A short passage referencing something that is offensive to us modern players, but which makes sense in the context, is not at all the same as writing on pages of detailed and graphic references that cuts no expense in its obvious attempt to offend. Had the guy cited a whole paragraph of Mein Keimph, then yea, maybe it'd be justified. If the player repeated such comments on a constant basis, then again, maybe it'd be justified to intervene. But this? We are not children, and we'll find much worse on films or TV that is sometimes destined to not-so-young people at all.

[Lavigna]

And not allowing it may endorce further censorship (the only reason I have been posting here).
Also asian is not a nationality, and again: we all know and use stereotypes. Where do you draw the line?

In any case it's not my decision to make, I'm just curious about your reasoning.

For me as a Magistrate and above all as a player this has already crossed the line.

As for the nationality , my mistake,  i mostly meant Chinese rather than Asian because as someone said earlier "yellow skin" is leading to that conclusion.

As it would be wrong to someone rp having slaves and rping them as black people , this is the same thing.
I do endorce censorship to any kind of in game rp, letter, or whatever that hides racism in it.
I prefer that it is not performed AT ALL than wait the point where it becomes obvious, blant and fully offensive.

This is a pretty sensitive matter and we wouldn't want to test it's limits.

[egamma]

Here's my question: why must the in-game race have both slanted-eyes and be yellow skinned? Why not have red-skinned natives with slanted eyes, and yellow skinned with big noses, etc? Why must an SMA continent have natives whose features match those of real-world groups?

Let's show some creativity, people! Mix and match!

[Lavigna]

Here's my question: why must the in-game race have both slanted-eyes and be yellow skinned? Why not have red-skinned natives with slanted eyes, and yellow skinned with big noses, etc? Why must an SMA continent have natives whose features match those of real-world groups?

Let's show some creativity, people! Mix and match!

+1

[Velax]

-Calling each other names (as in other players) is not the same thing as a character thinking ill of an NPC based on appearance and expressing that opinion. Did the player direct this at any character in particular? To another player? No. People taking offense to this would be sympathising with a three word NPC character that won't even exist long enough to see the sun go down.

Irrelevant. If you called your black friend the N-word because you're bosom buddies, does that mean another black man walking by can't take offence? The racist slur was said within the hearing of a dozen or more people, therefore they have the right to take offence.

-D'Haran or Arcaean aren't races. Even in BM we would expect people to be causasian, asian, african, ... In real life racism isn't fair because you can't change the colour of your skin, but in BM you can do just that.

So racism is okay if people can change their skin colour? Huh?

As long as we, as a community, assure not one single race is being targetted consistently, I can't see a problem with IC racism.

So racism is okay as long as all races cop it? No. Calling black people the N-word isn't okay just because Asian people get called slant eyes or white men near children are assumed to be paedophiles. It's all wrong.

[Lavigna]

Yeah we are grown ups that report each other because someone called the other "jerk" in game or out of it and it gets punished and this is not offending enough for you?

I am not even Chinese and i get offended by this.There are so many ways to describe someone as lazy...and his skin color has nothing to do with it.
What's next? slanted and puffed  eyes, funny shaped head , flat nose, weird way of talking making clear reference to a down syndrome ?

I am not saying that the player wanted to actually offend someone, maybe he was merely pulling a weird humor , fact remains this can escalate in the future.

[Chenier]

Here's my question: why must the in-game race have both slanted-eyes and be yellow skinned? Why not have red-skinned natives with slanted eyes, and yellow skinned with big noses, etc? Why must an SMA continent have natives whose features match those of real-world groups?

Let's show some creativity, people! Mix and match!

Are we going to legislate types of racism? "You can be as racist and offensive as you want, as long you replace all references to an existing ethnicity with ones to a fictitious ethnicity". Would someone spewing forth pages of offensive asian-related racist comments, but making them purple-skinned instead, really be all that better?

[Lavigna]

Are we going to legislate types of racism? "You can be as racist and offensive as you want, as long you replace all references to an existing ethnicity with ones to a fictitious ethnicity". Would someone spewing forth pages of offensive asian-related racist comments, but making them purple-skinned instead, really be all that better?

I doubt anyone would take offense for purple people with slanted eyes.

On the other hand in terms of racism as a word it may not be if there was a birth place for all those purple people and it wasn't just one exception, a weird looking lazy guy.

[Chenier]

I doubt anyone would take offense for purple people with slanted eyes.

On the other hand in terms of racism as a word it may not be if there was a birth place for all those purple people and it wasn't just one exception, a weird looking lazy guy.

If someone keeps sending racial slurs on and on and on, constantly, about these slanted-eyed "purple"-skinned people, in a blatant display of how he's basically saying that purple asians are a miserable pile of insect dung undeserving of equal status to other races, you wouldn't take offense?

To me, the insistence of distasteful RPs (be them about rape, racism, or other stuff) is more important than their nature (like whether the other guy's purple instead of yellow).

[Lavigna]

If someone keeps sending racial slurs on and on and on, constantly, about these slanted-eyed "purple"-skinned people, in a blatant display of how he's basically saying that purple asians are a miserable pile of insect dung undeserving of equal status to other races, you wouldn't take offense?

To me, the insistence of distasteful RPs (be them about rape, racism, or other stuff) is more important than their nature (like whether the other guy's purple instead of yellow).

No one said anything about constant. Constant is not even the case here, the player made a comment describing an existing race and we are discussing here if this is acceptable or not.

As i said earlier if by mentioning a purple whatever eyes he may had person that actually belonged to a race, and was not just a weird looking person that ate bad blueberries with weird facial results then yes it would be the same thing.

But really now...he just wanted to say the guy was lazy, since when laziness , stupidity or whatever has anything to do with the way someone looks or his race? Since never. He could have used multiple ways to explain  the guy was lazy or simply state he was freaking lazy. End of story, the reference to his looks was needless mostly when pointing out in a certain direction.

[Indirik]

and seeing it's IC being racist (not even towards another character but an NPC) alone shouldn't warrant penalty.

So you're saying that my characters can be racist towards all the NPCs they want, using whatever racial slurs and epithets they want to use, and it's no big deal because "hey, it's an NPC"?

[Shizzle]

But really now...he just wanted to say the guy was lazy, since when laziness , stupidity or whatever has anything to do with the way someone looks or his race? Since never. He could have used multiple ways to explain  the guy was lazy or simply state he was freaking lazy. End of story, the reference to his looks was needless mostly when pointing out in a certain direction.

It doesn't have to be pointless. A character could very well be aiming to provoke another character by referring to their descent, sex, orientation, religious beliefs ... It's like the prevalent usage of 'useless violence' in media: if a thug killed someone for an ipod it wasn't useless; it served a specific purpose.

Racistic remarks or insults should be perfectly acceptable under a number of conditions:
- They're aimed at the character, not the player. This can be ensured by avoiding consistent targetting of certain ethnicities, or by inventing a race no players feel connected to as suggested by Egamma
- They contribute to the game, immersion/character development or roleplaying in general. Cheap shots at characters' appearances are just as lame as just another superhuman combat story

If the first condition is breached, a penalty should be inflicted. If the second is breached, ignore it and move on.

So you're saying that my characters can be racist towards all the NPCs they want, using whatever racial slurs and epithets they want to use, and it's no big deal because "hey, it's an NPC"?

Yes, with the caveat above.

[D'Espana]

Well, speaking as a person brought here looking to see if there has been any Word on the matter by He who is Tom, I must say that I am left with about the same feelings now that I had when I started looking into this.

Speaking as a Caucasian of mongolian decent (although, who isn't?) who is RPing a Mongolian of mixed blood (although, who, wait, I did that joke...), I must say that if this was me dealing with it in character, I might have some pointed words with our realm's diplomat. 

That said, this IS a SMA continent, racism was historically prevalent (So is syphilis the French Disease?  Turkish?  Spanish?  Anyone want to claim this for their country and/or race?  How about a rousing discussion about Blood Libel?), and the phrasing was open enough to be debatable as to who was being racist IMO.

It's not something I would do, I think, but in the context of the rule and the environment, I don't think slapping Kas for this is fair.  Thinkng less of Kas for it?  Sure.  Less of Kas's player?  Fine.  But punishment based on no actual breach of BM's laws or the guidelines for messaging (where racism is not really referenced and no swear words were used) is bluntly unfair.

+1

Now this is getting ridiculous. So, I can have a character that endorses and enjoys war, is misogynist, thinks that commoners are scum, rapes the wives and daughters of his fallen enemies and manifests openly his intention of hanging every single man, woman and kid from an IC realm, some of those things even supported by his religion, and it's perfectly fine, but then a SLIGHT IMPLICATION of racism lights the rage of the BM community? How come that religious zealotry, war lauding, genocide, women abuse and discrimination and the one based on the social class of characters is OK, but the one regarding their origin is not?

Either we allow everything that comes with the period we are playing, or we forbid everything that "might be offensive for some random collective". If we do the latter, please notify me to start writing letters that only verse about peace and flowers, because it's the only thing that we'll all find acceptable. Oh, wait, flowers should be censored too: my sister is allergic, and I don't want her reading such horrible things in an ONLINE GAME THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO PLAY AS IF WE WERE FRIENDS.

Sheesh, I hate hipocrisy, as much if not even more than racism itself. Don't be so squeamish, guys. Seriously.

[Lavigna]

You are missing the point here.

No one said BM should turn into Barbie's doll house. But racist comments can escalate badly.

Today it's a chinese and tomorrow it could be a whole unit of bald men that go after black slaves.

Do realize that referring to existing nations out there can escalate badly and actually offend players worse than straight forward OOC insults.

That's all i m saying. I am not even saying that we should hang the player who did this, i mostly find his message as a tasteless humor than a racist comment, i m just saying that this requires boundaries .

As no one can set the limit to an ooc insult , no one can set limit to a racist comment. Think of the big picture here and don't jump into hypocrisy conclusions right away.

Besides there might be  people who also found rape to be a not acceptable rp for BM but find racist comments to be ok. So what?  Should i call them hypocrites for it?  What kind of logic is this?

[Fury]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=slant-eye
It's disparaging and offensive. We don't need to ask how many East Asians are offended.