Titan System Revalation

[Vellos]

But currently, people are singled out for being suspected of having filed a report.

I'm going to assume you've personally witnessed someone discriminated against because they are suspected of having filed a report, and can demonstrate that discrimination was more severe than they would have faced had they been identified for certain.

If you can't support such a claim... frankly, that's a silly argument. People are already discriminated against, so let's make it worse?

Plus if we can get it into players' heads that this really isn't a big deal, that should help. Except in the case of multis, but then again in that case they're gone when we're done with them.

Minor issue, but you're often not done with them. Every time I've ever reported multis, they've ended up getting removed in "waves," as I guess the Titans are usually conservative: rather let a few multis remain and "wait and see" than accidentally remove real players. But that's a minor point.

However, a larger point: you want reporting to the Titans to not be a big deal?

Never gonna happen. One, they're called Titans. That's a big deal. Two, few people go to the effort of bringing small issues to the Titans. Small issues are resolved at a lower levels. Titans are a last resort for most of us: it can't be resolved any other way, so you contact the Titans.

If you're seriously suggesting we should stop community conflict resolution and bring any issue to the Titans... that seems like a big workload for them.

[Geronus]

I think the whole point is to let a little light into the system, so to speak, in order to put to rest some of the more noxious and paranoid accusations about Titan 'interference' and partiality. Get rid of the absolute secrecy of the current system and make its workings more transparent to demonstrate to the community that the Titans are not malicious or capricious. Along the way, we all benefit from the publication of Titan decisions *with* their reasoning. This is something that I think will prove to be a huge benefit of the proposed changes.

I have come to think this really is a good idea - we just need to hammer out some of the details like what level of anonymity to retain within the system.

Tom has objected to the idea of making the Titans responsible for drafting summaries of each complaint, but I do think it's a really bad idea to publish them verbatim with the accuser's name attached, not to mention all the specifics of who/what/where/when. This is the kind of thing that will lead to massive flaming on the forums. Since it is entirely possible to decide upon the merits of a case without knowing names and places (other than by generic pseudonym, like Kepler of Keplerstan), I think it is hugely important to try to focus the debate on the meaning of a rule and whether, *in general*, a reported action violates it. If you include specifics like realm and character, you run an enormous risk of derailing the debate into a flame war between players.

The idea of expanding the pool of Titans has been mentioned. If Titan workload is a concern, would adding Titans compensate for adding in the extra duty of drafting a summary of each complaint headed to the forum? I do not think we can implement this system without in some way summarizing complaints.

[roland.walters@abbott.com]

Would it help the process if one or more persons took on the task of summarizing the issues brought to the Titans, posted these summaries, and published the results perhaps with the the rational for the decision without including any identifiers?  This could minimize the issue of potential retaliation by concealing the writing style of individuals.  It would also make things more transparent to the individual players who would be able to read the decisions and rational.  I have done a lot of writing and editing at my job and have a bit of time on my hands as I near retirement  I would be willing to take a stab at the task if it is thought to be a good idea.

Roland

[Geronus]

As would I. Such volunteers wouldn't even have to be Titans themselves, though they would have to have access to the original complaint obviously.

[Darksun]

I'm not sure if anyone has asked thus far... but Tom - what is the current volume of Titan complaints? Are we talking one a week or several a day? Median time to resolution? I'm not sure that everyone understands the workload here and that's why suggestions that would increase the bureaucracy and workload of the volunteers continues to surface.

Regardless, this is a very interesting discussion and vital to the game's future. I didn't see this topic until today, so perhaps this is newsworthy and should be posted to the login page so that all players have a chance to contribute?

[Tom]

Tom has objected to the idea of making the Titans responsible for drafting summaries of each complaint, but I do think it's a really bad idea to publish them verbatim with the accuser's name attached, not to mention all the specifics of who/what/where/when. This is the kind of thing that will lead to massive flaming on the forums. Since it is entirely possible to decide upon the merits of a case without knowing names and places (other than by generic pseudonym, like Kepler of Keplerstan), I think it is hugely important to try to focus the debate on the meaning of a rule and whether, *in general*, a reported action violates it. If you include specifics like realm and character, you run an enormous risk of derailing the debate into a flame war between players.

Erm, we are dealing out punishments, like removal from office or locking people out of the game for a day or three.

How do you intend to keep that secret anyways? If the Titans publish a decision with a "removal from office" result, even perfectly anonymized (which is very, very hard to do), how long would it take until players connect the dots and all the names are out there?

The identity of the accuser is the only thing you have a somewhat realistic chance of keeping secret. And even that won't be easy.

[Tom]

I'm not sure if anyone has asked thus far... but Tom - what is the current volume of Titan complaints? Are we talking one a week or several a day?

I've not done any statistics, but my purely personal, subjective, gut-feeling number is about 2 a week. Sometimes more, sometimes less. More than two at the same day is a very rare occurance, and then it's mostly several people complaining about the same event.

[Gloria]

And how many times is the complaint worthy of something more than "That wasn't nice; please don't do it again"? 

[cjnodell]

I, personally, am in favor opening things up as Tom suggests. I am also not really concerned with ensuring any kind of anonymity. I know that a lot of people are concerned with the potential for backlash for reporting. However, I do not totally agree.

To start with, knowing that my report will public and identifiable will make me more cautious when initiating complaints. I will want to be certain that my complaint really is justifiable and be sure to word my complaint in a manner that is respectful and less likely to incur the wrath of others.

Also, I believe that players attempting to punish those who report issues will, in the end, be the ones who suffer. Lets say I report a concern, it is decided that someone did in fact do something bad and the individual reprimanded then chooses to take it out on my characters. Even worse, lets say that this becomes a pattern for a particular player. In the long run I could see other players refusing to work with or trust the offending player. I could even see this person being removed from play.

In the end I think that concerns being brought up in a polite, open manner will often lead to "My Bad!" or, "Oh, that's why you did what you did, I withdraw my complaint!"

[Vellos]

To start with, knowing that my report will public and identifiable will make me more cautious when initiating complaints. I will want to be certain that my complaint really is justifiable and be sure to word my complaint in a manner that is respectful and less likely to incur the wrath of others.

That is not a benefit.

[Indirik]

I agree with Vellos. People should be willing to report stuff that they are not sure is a violation. It might be a violation. So when things that are not a violation are reported, the Titans will let people know that it's not, and the reporters will learn. And, it might really be a violation after all.

[cjnodell]

Shortly after submitting this I had a feeling that I had not made that point clear. I can only speak as to how I might conduct myself, but I would never shy away from reporting a possible breach of the rules. However, before doing so I would take a second to consider if this is really something worth reporting or if I am simply being a poor sport. Additionally, if I were not sure if what I was perceiving was really against the spirit of the game or if it only appeared so from my perspective, I would be sure to approach it in a friendly, considerate manner - as I would if I thought a friend was not following the rules of a boardgame we were playing. I feel that anonymity sometimes emboldens people in negative ways and makes the more willing to approach situations in aggressive and inconsiderate manners or even bring up issues that, if thought about for a moment, would clearly not be something you would attack a friend over.

[Indirik]

I feel that anonymity sometimes emboldens people in negative ways and makes the more willing to approach situations in aggressive and inconsiderate manners or even bring up issues that, if thought about for a moment, would clearly not be something you would attack a friend over.

Two things: First, a Titans report is not an attack. It is a notification of the Titans that there may be a possible rules violation that needs investigated.

Second, keep in mind that the Titans are players of the game, just like you and me. The Titans are not some autonomous script that randomly locks accounts whenever they are reported for a possible violation. It is their purpose to stop and think about these things, and investigate them. They are not going to take any reporter at face value, I would hope. They should be as fully capable of reasoned deduction as any player on the forum. Which means that even if someone posts a spurious complaint, the Titans should realize that "Archers are horrible. Infantry are the only /real/ soldiers." is not a breach of the IR and should act accordingly.

[cjnodell]

I give. Either my original point is off by a mile or I can not effectively express it. I was never suggesting that that a Titan complaint was meant to be any kind of attack, only that when things are not going my way I may be tempted to complain to the Titans about some perceived wrong doing. I also understand that all these cases are reviewed by real people who need to sift the real issues from the non-issues. I guess I was trying to suggest the the number of non-issues might decrease if anonymity were removed. Like I said, either I have no real point here or I can not express it well enough.

[Tom]

No, I think I got you and you're right. And that's pretty close to what I've been saying all along.