Great Dwilight War:Astrum defeats Asylon and Farronite forces.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I would attribute more to some rather inspired line settings from the Morekian General... I was impressed to be honest.We were amazing, weren't we? Back when I could be scowling and old, without being told I'm too mean...

Morek has long been known for producing solid Marshals and Generals. You have Bustoarsenzio, myself, even Allison arguably, although she was more known for her political intrigues. There are others too, but I cannot name them off the top of my head since it has been years since I've been in Morek.

[pcw27]

Well fought Astrum. I am really trying to get killed in these battles, second time wounded in a week. Glaumring is 69 years old and still as cocky as ever, yet getting old and frail. Excellent fight, you killed our general :( . Astrum is unbeatable in the field, we knew that going in and its been a challenge. More to come hopefully!

We did? I totally missed that. I'm gonna look over that battle report again and see who killed him.

As for dieing in battle, keep waiting. I've been wounded and seriously wounded so many times I figure my whole body is just scar tissue.

Astrum was doing perfectly fine under my command  8) Hell we were doing way too good for our own good  8)

In my defense your last campaign into Asylon let Niselur really mess up our northern rural regions. I think that's a big factor in the rampant starvation that's now destroying us. 

[Zakilevo]

In my defense your last campaign into Asylon let Niselur really mess up our northern rural regions. I think that's a big factor in the rampant starvation that's now destroying us.

Uh no? I told you guys (you and Abek) to attack Walefishire. What did you guys do? You guys convinced Sergio to attack Itaufield to loot. The best thing Asylon has ever done against me was to wound me in my last campaign for 3 days. That allowed you two to do whatever you want.  :P

[pcw27]

Uh no? I told you guys (you and Abek) to attack Walefishire. What did you guys do? You guys convinced Sergio to attack Itaufield to loot. The best thing Asylon has ever done against me was to wound me in my last campaign for 3 days. That allowed you two to do whatever you want.  :P

What does that matter? Niselur was still on the other side of the realm tearing up our bread basket. Even if we'd taken back Walefshire we wouldn't have been any less screwed when all the militia in Eidlub Outskirts starved to death.

[Zakilevo]

What does that matter? Niselur was still on the other side of the realm tearing up our bread basket. Even if we'd taken back Walefshire we wouldn't have been any less screwed when all the militia in Eidlub Outskirts starved to death.

Uh I never planned on retaking Walefishire. If we simply burned the walls and destroyed the region while sending most of our men back to the capital, we would have had a shorter refit. I had to pause for 5 days after the campaign and when I came back, none of you did anything :p while Niselur roamed free. I am still surprised people voted you as my successor. I even told everyone in the military council what they should do before I paused completely. I don't exactly know what happened after I paused but within 2 months, Astrum fell apart. You undid 4 months worth of work in half the time. Clap Clap Clap.

[Stabbity]

Lets keep this civil, no need for a flame war.

[Eduardo Almighty]

Can't you see? Without a single man for 5 days Astrum is now doomed!  8)

[pcw27]

Uh I never planned on retaking Walefishire. If we simply burned the walls and destroyed the region while sending most of our men back to the capital, we would have had a shorter refit. I had to pause for 5 days after the campaign and when I came back, none of you did anything :p while Niselur roamed free. I am still surprised people voted you as my successor. I even told everyone in the military council what they should do before I paused completely. I don't exactly know what happened after I paused but within 2 months, Astrum fell apart. You undid 4 months worth of work in half the time. Clap Clap Clap.

For starters, it's not like that was the first time you let Niselur ravage the northern rurals. Much of your strategy was a matter of trading blows in terms of food looted/destroyed. The problem is Niselur can take that hit a lot more easily then we can.

Also if Itaufield was close enough we could scout it we were already well into Asylon's territory, which means Walefshire was well behind us, so we would have had to attack it on our way home. That would have left us just as screwed if not more so, we may have been a little closer for a refit but a siege like that would have caused heavy casualties so our refit would be longer. If we actually stayed to loot the region rogue and destroy all the fortifications we'd actually have been getting home even later. There is no way in nine hells targeting Itaufield over Walefshire was the single event that made the realm collapse like a row of dominos.

At the start I actually did try and follow the plans you laid out and they didn't work. I tried to initiate the looting campaign you devised twice. The first time Niselur dodged our army thanks to that stupid mechanic where both armies will always unite against a rogue militia in a rogue region.  That let them slip past us into Sabadell which was way too important a food source too ignore. The second time Asylon moved an army north via the Cooridor of Torment. We were actually incredibly lucky because I'd been organizing a joint strike with Morek. So what would have been a disastrous defeat turned into a minor victory. After beating Asylon and Niselur we found Gaston Farms stocked with enough militia to keep us out. That pretty much put those plans to an end.

I actually wonder what would have happened if I'd completely scrapped that strategy, blown right past Gaston Farms and conquered Darfix like I wanted to in the first place. It definitely would have been more fun.

[BarticaBoat]

For starters, it's not like that was the first time you let Niselur ravage the northern rurals. Much of your strategy was a matter of trading blows in terms of food looted/destroyed. The problem is Niselur can take that hit a lot more easily then we can.

False. We were in a far better position for a tit for tat situation, considering our larger, more cohesive army with better strategicians. Niselur is located in wide open plains, we are on the otherside of a natural choke point... holding our core lands should've been far easier than became evident.

Also if Itaufield was close enough we could scout it we were already well into Asylon's territory, which means Walefshire was well behind us, so we would have had to attack it on our way home. That would have left us just as screwed if not more so, we may have been a little closer for a refit but a siege like that would have caused heavy casualties so our refit would be longer. If we actually stayed to loot the region rogue and destroy all the fortifications we'd actually have been getting home even later. There is no way in nine hells targeting Itaufield over Walefshire was the single event that made the realm collapse like a row of dominos.

False.  They are two regions apart. Sacking Walefishire would deprive Asylon of its gold and fortifications. Refitting is not a problem for us, we have(had?) nearly endless gold. Not sacking Walefishire was the first of quite a few questionable decisions.

At the start I actually did try and follow the plans you laid out and they didn't work. I tried to initiate the looting campaign you devised twice. The first time Niselur dodged our army thanks to that stupid mechanic where both armies will always unite against a rogue militia in a rogue region.  That let them slip past us into Sabadell which was way too important a food source too ignore. The second time Asylon moved an army north via the Cooridor of Torment. We were actually incredibly lucky because I'd been organizing a joint strike with Morek. So what would have been a disastrous defeat turned into a minor victory. After beating Asylon and Niselur we found Gaston Farms stocked with enough militia to keep us out. That pretty much put those plans to an end.

Because you can't do the same thing twice, they would be expecting us. The plan was (as I recall) attack Niselur, fall back, attack Asylon, fall back, rinse, repeat. We had two defensible choke points, it shouldn't have been a problem. Niselur had a far less capacity than us to rebuild.

I actually wonder what would have happened if I'd completely scrapped that strategy, blown right past Gaston Farms and conquered Darfix like I wanted to in the first place. It definitely would have been more fun.

Fun for you, you've been fixated on Darfix since Dwilight opened! The plan was always to wash around Gaston, loot Niselur's core so they starve, then deal with Asylon's weak army.

We should've burned Asylon a year or two ago, when I said they will strike us when we are at our weakest. But nope, we accomplished our goals in that war ::)

All in all, this has been fun for Karibash and has given him a good opportunity to find a glorious death and finally let his saga come to a close!

Additional fun facts based on statistics and intelligence gathering: Asylon produces approximately 86% of the food it requires while Niselur produces 106%. Together, they produce about 94.5% of their food requirements. Astrum alone produces 141% of its food needs. Based on military numbers, Asyloniselur requires ~100 bushels in addition, bringing their food supply to ~93.4%. Astrum's military atm requires about 22 bushels (lol), bringing their food supply to 140%... I estimate on historical data, with a renewed army we would be at ~135% supply...

Analytics, my friends ;)

[pcw27]

False. We were in a far better position for a tit for tat situation, considering our larger, more cohesive army with better strategicians. Niselur is located in wide open plains, we are on the otherside of a natural choke point... holding our core lands should've been far easier than became evident.

We were in a better position to us some of our forces to protect our lands and the rest to raid. We actually don't have a choke point in the north. No matter what two regions need to be defended to keep Niselur out.

False.  They are two regions apart.

Except the army wasn't actually in Walefshire. It's not like we were in Duil and I marched us blind into Itaufield. We were at least as close as Elets because I remember scouting Itaufield and finding it empty. So a total of one region was added to the journey. Walefshire wouldn't have been a cake walk either, I seem to recall that it had a ton of militia and fortifications.

Sacking Walefishire would deprive Asylon of its gold and fortifications. Refitting is not a problem for us, we have(had?) nearly endless gold. Not sacking Walefishire was the first of quite a few questionable decisions.

We sacked it before and it accomplished bubkis. Why sack it again? It's not as if it's a city where they can actually amass forces, it's a townsland, a nice pit stop to repair your equipment. With all the militia defending the place it wasn't producing much gold. I went for Itaufield for the chance to maybe hit Itau, because that would have really hurt Asylon.

Because you can't do the same thing twice, they would be expecting us. The plan was (as I recall) attack Niselur, fall back, attack Asylon, fall back, rinse, repeat.

On the contrary doing the same thing twice after consistently going back and forth is the perfect way to hit them with something they're not expecting. Its a common tactic, establish a pattern, then suddenly break it. They key is you have to break the pattern before they do. It just so happened that we instead broke the pattern at the same time. That's why Asylon's army was in the north.

If we had gone for Asylon after Niselur rebuffed us the first time we would have been ruined. Remember Asylon's army had just marched north then looped around south. What's more they actually vastly outnumbered us (we needed Moreks support to stop the attack). We would have had to spend additional time raising a large enough army to take them out. They would have annihilated everything north of Eidulb Outskirts by the time we got back from Asylon.

We had two defensible choke points, it shouldn't have been a problem. Niselur had a far less capacity than us to rebuild.

When I first took command it was actually Asylon that had multiple choke points. By treaty we couldn't cross into the Farronite Republic, so we only had a narrow strip of rogue lands to march through. From there they had Itaufield, then Upper and Lower Via. A fruitful incursion into Asylon from the north is not easy.

Also with respect to choke points and easily defended regions, I inherited a realm that wasn't taking advantage of them at all. I have no idea why Yggdramir was devoid of militia. Now that's a choke point! Only Eidulb Outskirts was well defended, and of course that counted for nothing once they all starved to death.

Niselur had a far less capacity than us to rebuild.

None the less they rebuilt amazingly fast. After their joint attack with Asylon they were about at full strength.

Fun for you, you've been fixated on Darfix since Dwilight opened!

Actually during the expedition I proposed that Darfix was too difficult to take and we should try instead for Itau or Echiur. Conquering it ended up being pretty fun. I've done it twice now. They say third time's the charm :D

The plan was always to wash around Gaston, loot Niselur's core so they starve, then deal with Asylon's weak army.

I tried to carry out that plan and it didn't work because Asylon and Niselur joined forces in the north and blocked my ability to enter Niselur's core.

We should've burned Asylon a year or two ago, when I said they will strike us when we are at our weakest. But nope, we accomplished our goals in that war ::)

Yeah the biggest mistake I made was pushing for peace during the Southern War when I was king of Iashalur. I should have just helped crush them but Glaumring guilted me into speaking up or them.

All in all, this has been fun for Karibash and has given him a good opportunity to find a glorious death and finally let his saga come to a close!

Watch the war end and we're both still alive.

Additional fun facts based on statistics and intelligence gathering: Asylon produces approximately 86% of the food it requires while Niselur produces 106%. Together, they produce about 94.5% of their food requirements. Astrum alone produces 141% of its food needs. Based on military numbers, Asyloniselur requires ~100 bushels in addition, bringing their food supply to ~93.4%. Astrum's military atm requires about 22 bushels (lol), bringing their food supply to 140%... I estimate on historical data, with a renewed army we would be at ~135% supply...

Analytics, my friends ;)

Are those the current figures? Astrum just lost two cities and Asylon just absorbed a half dead realm so that would account for the shift in production vs consumption. Also so many have died in Eidulb it's almost at equilibrium. I know for a fact Astrum ran a food deficit for years because they were always Iashalur's prime trade partner.

[BarticaBoat]

You don't call that a chokepoint, I do. By blockading one region you control the movement of the enemy army. Destroy mobility, destroy effectiveness.

Hitting Itau was so unlikely... far too big a gamble imo.

Except the strategy and flow of the war was tit for tat. No one was going to score an outright victory. When one attacked north, the other attacked south. It was a war of attrition, who could grind the other into dust first... we were winning. If they spent time destroying our north, we could've destroyed Asylonian heartland... afaik, they weren't net food producers (correct me if I'm wrong?) and if they were it was perilous. They have mostly narrow coastal regions, and cities. Let them raid the north, we will ravage the south. It's almost like you don't remember monster hordes in early Dwilight!

Treaty with FR was stupid, they were utterly ineffective in the war and a complete liability for Asyloniselur. Attacking them creates a stressor on the allies to defend them. Besides, the treaty paved the way for massive funneling of gold into Asylon leading to their uncharacteristicly huge armies afterwards.

We were complacent with defenses, no doubt.

Again, peace with Farronite spurred them to funnel gold!

As for the numbers, Astrum had a reasonable deficit, but I think Asylon did as well without the massive gold reserves. My numbers are old, but if despite absorbing FR they are still in deficit... well, we could've dealt with them easily. We did not resort to total war, attacking the food suppliers of the enemy axis was a prime diplomatic point we failed on.

[pcw27]

You don't call that a chokepoint, I do. By blockading one region you control the movement of the enemy army. Destroy mobility, destroy effectiveness.

In game terms I'd only call a single region blocking their path a bottle neck. Two regions makes it very easy to slip past. I've seen it happen a bunch of times. We could have had a bottle neck if there were large numbers of militia in Sabadell or Zereth but nope.

Hitting Itau was so unlikely... far too big a gamble imo.

But remember we'd just seen Darfix virtually undefended. There was a good chance the enemy was going to be complacent.

Except the strategy and flow of the war was tit for tat. No one was going to score an outright victory. When one attacked north, the other attacked south. It was a war of attrition, who could grind the other into dust first... we were winning. If they spent time destroying our north, we could've destroyed Asylonian heartland... afaik, they weren't net food producers (correct me if I'm wrong?) and if they were it was perilous. They have mostly narrow coastal regions, and cities. Let them raid the north, we will ravage the south. It's almost like you don't remember monster hordes in early Dwilight!

Their rurals were a lot harder to get to. Like I said the path to their bread basket is just a series of bottlenecks. By the time we got to Upper Via they'd have wiped out every last one of our rural regions. Then we'd have a long march home giving them plenty of time to rebuild.

Could the rebalance explain why they're somehow in a deficit after absorbing all those regions?

Treaty with FR was stupid, they were utterly ineffective in the war and a complete liability for Asyloniselur. Attacking them creates a stressor on the allies to defend them. Besides, the treaty paved the way for massive funneling of gold into Asylon leading to their uncharacteristicly huge armies afterwards.

We were complacent with defenses, no doubt.

Again, peace with Farronite spurred them to funnel gold!

As for the numbers, Astrum had a reasonable deficit, but I think Asylon did as well without the massive gold reserves. My numbers are old, but if despite absorbing FR they are still in deficit... well, we could've dealt with them easily. We did not resort to total war, attacking the food suppliers of the enemy axis was a prime diplomatic point we failed on.
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[Zakilevo]

You and Abek kept on suggesting impossible plans through the war. Setting up a colony in Darfix? We sacked Darfix to see if your plan was even viable and the moment we arrived in the city our men began to lose morale. We wouldn't have been able to stay in that city more than 2-3 days. Even getting there made us lose 5k CS to damaged equipment.

I can't believe you actually thought that was a viable strategy. We were right next to Walefishire when I got wounded.

We slaughtered Asylonians in Dunnbrook and while I was wounded, someone ordered our armies to chase after Asylonians. Before I got wounded I specifically told my marshals that our plan for the campaign was to deal with Walefishire. Why? Because without Walefishire, Asylon had no place near Astrum to gather their forces. Walefishire was a fortified island where they could gather their men without worry about us crushing them.

I will admit I made a horrible mistake by not publicly announcing my successor. I would have either made people vote for marshals from the judgement or Karibash. I literally had to order the Defenders myself cause I couldn't trust my marshals. Turin almost got half of our mobile force destroyed by himself. Luckily, someone sent me a message and I managed that what could have been a disaster. Abek right out refused to follow my orders when we barely won in Farrowfield but that was mostly due to the players inexperience with the game so that was understandable.

[pcw27]

You and Abek kept on suggesting impossible plans through the war. Setting up a colony in Darfix? We sacked Darfix to see if your plan was even viable and the moment we arrived in the city our men began to lose morale. We wouldn't have been able to stay in that city more than 2-3 days. Even getting there made us lose 5k CS to damaged equipment.

I seriously doubt that because I've tested the upper thresholds of morale penalties and Darfix isn't anywhere close to the point at which you can only hold for two or three days. I kept a unit going that long in Chesland albeit with frequent entertainment. You definitely didn't say anything about morale penalties at the time.

We were right next to Walefishire when I got wounded.

We slaughtered Asylonians in Dunnbrook and while I was wounded, someone ordered our armies to chase after Asylonians. Before I got wounded I specifically told my marshals that our plan for the campaign was to deal with Walefishire. Why? Because without Walefishire, Asylon had no place near Astrum to gather their forces. Walefishire was a fortified island where they could gather their men without worry about us crushing them.

None of that makes any sense. Why would we have been in Dunnbrook if our target was explicitly and unambiguously Walefshire? Clearly something here is being misremembered or misrepresented. As best I can remember we were discussing a lot of different potential targets before you were wounded.

Walefshire was worth absolutely nothing as a staging area because Asylon was incapable of penetrating Eidulb Outskirts. That's why they looped around the other side of the subcontinent twice in order to try and attack us.  If anything we were better off leaving Walefshire there so we could skirt around them while they're hunkering down in the fortifications.

Even if we'd targeted Walefshire it would have shaved a day off of Niselur's pillaging at the most because we would have taken more casualties and thus had a much longer refit time. It certainly wouldn't have saved Aquitain, Zereth or YggdRazhuul.

I literally had to order the Defenders myself cause I couldn't trust my marshals. Turin almost got half of our mobile force destroyed by himself. Luckily, someone sent me a message and I managed that what could have been a disaster.

Actually you literally didn't have to do anything because every time I lead a multi-turn attack I scout the very next turn to see if enough forces are inbound. I would have seen there weren't enough and ordered them to fall back. You didn't prevent anything and the ensuing battle was a crushing victory. For all you know if we'd waited until you felt comfortable attacking enough defenders would have shown up to force a stalemate and waste the entire campaign. I can't believe you're actually still going on about that one.

So what's your explanation for why the realm lacked militia in several critical regions?

[Zakilevo]

Yes we were discussing what we'd do once we lose. I expected either a close victory or a close defeat. Instead, we crushed Asylon because their settings were horrible.

We were in Dunnbrook because that is where I got wounded. We ran around Walefishire remember? to drag them out of the place because they had over 20k CS stationed there and we only had 19k CS during the campaign and we ended up only getting 17k CS instead of 23k because people were lagging behind. We moved to Knyazes to drag them out of the fortified region by pretending to strike deeper into their territories. They bit the bait and moved out of the fortified region and we attacked Dunnbrook with what we had. The only mistake I made there was not planning any scenario for a crushing victory which I didn't expect.

If you want to know what exactly happened you can check Kihalin's wiki page for that. After the battle we had about 12k CS left and we could have just dealt with Walefishire which only had 2-3k but instead somebody thought it was smart to attack Itaufield just to loot the region for a turn which accomplished nothing.

About Darfix, I never visited Darfix myself so I am not quite sure but several people sent me reports on their men losing morale that is why I ordered people to pull back instead of looting the city to the ground. I wanted us to stay in the city longer to steal as much food as possible but we had to retreat due to morale loss + equipment damage. I am guessing it wasn't the distance that was causing the morale loss. We probably just stayed in Niselur too long. There was a bug during the campaign which made the armies get stuck between regions for 2 full days which forced us to stay in Niselur longer for no reason. I remember this clearly because Niselur sent 6k after us to crush the scattered Defenders(scattered to steal food more efficiently).

Actually you literally didn't have to do anything because every time I lead a multi-turn attack I scout the very next turn to see if enough forces are inbound. I would have seen there weren't enough and ordered them to fall back. You didn't prevent anything and the ensuing battle was a crushing victory. For all you know if we'd waited until you felt comfortable attacking enough defenders would have shown up to force a stalemate and waste the entire campaign. I can't believe you're actually still going on about that one.

So what's your explanation for why the realm lacked militia in several critical regions?

Uh no. It doesn't work that way. You don't just order in the middle of the day asking people to pull back. If you want people to actually respond, you order early so everyone can react to your order. I was pissed because you didn't say a word and just decided it was good to order some people to attack Duil. People who were in Eidulb Outskirts heard your order but people in Sabadell didn't. By the time I arrived with the other half of the army, you were already about to hit Duil with only 9k. Who on earth attacks a region with 14k CS with only 9k? I had to order people to turn back because Duil was 2 turns away from EO. Luckily the only one who paid for your mistake was you and the rest of the army managed to turn around. After another turn later, we beat Asylon and beat them again in Walefishire.

Also, what are you trying to say about Astrum's lack of militia in several critical regions? Which critical regions? The only critical region we had to worry about was Eidulb Outskirts. I ordered the lord to increase the militia there to 10k CS but the guy never did that. Our islands were perfectly fine as we had 2k CS guarding all the regions there. Our north was wide open because it was pointless to drop militias in regions without any fortification.

The main reason why we had to attack Walefishire was because the lord of EO refused to increase his militia to 10k CS. We only had 6k back then because we asked Corsanctum to guard the region for the most of our campaigns. Some bug hit Corsanctum hard and they couldn't help us in our last two campaigns. Without their help, we had to increase our reinforcement there but the lord never did. I probably should have just ordered people to drop militia there but I never thought about that back then.

When Asylon gathered 17k CS in Walefishire, I had to make a decision. Either reduce them before they grow even larger and attack EO - Asylon's army was an infantry heavy army (with just over 1000 infantrymen. I don't recall their exact infantry CS though) or ignore them and fight Niselur. I chose the former and it would have been fine if I didn't get wounded but that happened unfortunately. By the time Astrum Kybcyell, Niselur began their attack on our northern regions and because we had to travel from Itaufield to our capital instead of Walefishire to our capital, they had enough time to burn two of our regions. They burned even more during our refit because our armies had to walk around Walefishire because we wasted our CS on looting a pointless region.