Great Dwilight War:Astrum defeats Asylon and Farronite forces.

[JeVondair]

That's certainly part of it, but if you look at what Alice has said about Morek's attempts at playing the patriarch to the poor benighted realms to their south, that's a very real concern and frustration. Since the founding of Dwilight, there has always been at least a shadow of Morek's power looming to the north, warning Lurians not to dare to become too powerful, or stray beyond what they find acceptable, or they'd come and punish Luria for it.

It's time to end that fear. Or die trying.

While I am sure this has not been overlooked, I'll also reiterate that Morek threatened to punish any aggressive action taken  by D'Hara against Luria.

[Anaris]

While I am sure this has not been overlooked, I'll also reiterate that Morek threatened to punish any aggressive action taken  by D'Hara against Luria.

From Luria's (or at least Alanna's) perspective, that exchange went something like:

"So, if D'Hara attacks us, will you declare war on them, too?"

"Well...I hardly think that's likely to happen. (After all, they're civilized folk, not like you barbarians.) But...all right, I guess if by some absurd happenstance they declared war on you, we would probably declare war on them, too. (Assuming they didn't have a perfectly good reason to do so. Which I'm sure they would if that ever happened.)"

So...yeah, not exactly filled with confidence.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I can see this as being the position of the Farronite Republic (who I imagine want an Elders Council that will accept them as a "theocratic realm" and look out of their interests as though they were a theocracy) but who else really wants this?
Luria sounds like its just along for the ride so they can destroy D'Hara without Morekian interference, and Niselur seems to be against "ecclesiastical tyranny" over "soverign rulers"- pretty much the reduction of SA to a compliant flavor religion. In fact a mere glance at the recent string of messages in the SA channel seems to indicate that at least among the more vocal of the secularists, from Libero to Niselur to D'Hara, the main theme is that the Elders should "stick to spiritual matters" and stay out of the affairs of realms.

Uhm... the Farronite Republic doesn't want that anymore. We're just bitter about almost getting a crusade called on us for being a Republic. That's all.

[Sarwell]

Uhm... the Farronite Republic doesn't want that anymore. We're just bitter about almost getting a crusade called on us for being a Republic. That's all.

Phantaria's just bitter about actually getting a crusade called on us for wanting three little regions on the coast.

[Stabbity]

While I am sure this has not been overlooked, I'll also reiterate that Morek threatened to punish any aggressive action taken  by D'Hara against Luria.

Right up until the recent negotiations where Morek's Grandmistress refused to sign a treaty obligating them to war against D'hara for failing to meet the obligations of said treaty, but they were perfectly willing to stop Luria from seeking compensation for D'hara's failure to hand over the West Marches in a timely fashion. Morek lost all claims to neutrality there.

[JeVondair]

Right up until the recent negotiations where Morek's Grandmistress refused to sign a treaty obligating them to war against D'hara for failing to meet the obligations of said treaty, but they were perfectly willing to stop Luria from seeking compensation for D'hara's failure to hand over the West Marches in a timely fashion. Morek lost all claims to neutrality there.

Because the obligations of said treaty were laughably absurd and convinced everyone who saw it that Luria hadn't the slightest interest in a peaceful coexistence with D'Hara. It essentially said "Force D'Hara to pay up for allowing us to take regions which had the audacity to surrender to them when we wanted them instead and make war on them if they fail." If that had been reversed with D'hara seeking reparations instead, it never would have flown either. That antic insulted both the Prime Minister and the Grand Mistress by wasting their time, then Alice stormed out without bothering to actually negotiate.

I can understand starting out high to begin negotiations in a bartering sort of diplomatic style. But to leave without haggling at all indicates exactly Zero interest i the deal at hand. Alice came to the summit to keep up appearances, nothing more. In fact, I'd wager that she was gearing up for war with SOMEONE even before that point.

[Geronus]

That's certainly part of it, but if you look at what Alice has said about Morek's attempts at playing the patriarch to the poor benighted realms to their south, that's a very real concern and frustration. Since the founding of Dwilight, there has always been at least a shadow of Morek's power looming to the north, warning Lurians not to dare to become too powerful, or stray beyond what they find acceptable, or they'd come and punish Luria for it.

It's time to end that fear. Or die trying.

That seems overly dramatic. I imagine that if Morek tried, it would end almost (though not quite) as ignominiously as the attempt by the northern realms to fight Aurvandil. From an IC perspective, I suppose I can see it, but I suspect the reality is that neither side would have much success marching against the other, unless they met somewhere in the middle (lucky Swordfell).

[Vellos]

tried to involve everyone IC as much as I could

Okay now that's bologna.

Leopold doesn't respond to messages half the time, and has a long track-record of silence and non-participation.

You've tried to include your realm-mates. That ain't everyone. Now I don't see any obligation to include everyone, so I don't think what you're doing is wrong. But it certainly isn't true. The whole reason we are where we are is because Leopold doesn't include others and doesn't want to include others.

[Vellos]

Unless I am significantly misunderstanding, that is not what is being said here.

The fear is not that SA will be destroyed, but rather that it will lose its hegemony and its power over the doings of realms—which will destroy what makes it unique and special in BattleMaster, and reduce it to being just another flavour-of-the-month also-ran religion, like nearly every other religion in the whole game.

This.

If Leopold were even slightly pious, it'd be NBD. I have hope for SA retaining a hold in LN and FR: FR because there are still some dedicated characters and because of heritage and proximity; LN because of Alice and rivalry with D'Hara and Swordfell. As long as any of those three are Astroist, the other two will at least pay lip service.

But LE adds nothing to SA. Niselur and Asylon have some real stellar RPers: problem is they're people who really like to play a character who's piously and sacrifically devoted to messing up the things other players have spent years building.

[Stabbity]

Because the obligations of said treaty were laughably absurd and convinced everyone who saw it that Luria hadn't the slightest interest in a peaceful coexistence with D'Hara. It essentially said "Force D'Hara to pay up for allowing us to take regions which had the audacity to surrender to them when we wanted them instead and make war on them if they fail." If that had been reversed with D'hara seeking reparations instead, it never would have flown either. That antic insulted both the Prime Minister and the Grand Mistress by wasting their time, then Alice stormed out without bothering to actually negotiate.

I can understand starting out high to begin negotiations in a bartering sort of diplomatic style. But to leave without haggling at all indicates exactly Zero interest i the deal at hand. Alice came to the summit to keep up appearances, nothing more. In fact, I'd wager that she was gearing up for war with SOMEONE even before that point.

Except that Morek instantly indicated it wouldn't act to enforce the treaty against D'hara, before any negotiating on terms could take place. D'hara didn't let Luria Nova do anything. Luria Nova completely and totally wrecked D'hara and Luria Vesperi in war, and was claiming what was Luria Nova's by right. You know, rather than continuing the war that it just won against Luria Vesperi and D'hara, sans D'hara's lone ally in that conflict.

[JeVondair]

Defeated? More like redirected. The only reason that war did not continue is because Fissoa cried out for help from both its allies. Rynn agreed only because he feels that helping friends is worth more than fighting enemies. Not a Lurian concept, I know 

Would y'all have eventually taken the Western marches? yeah, probably, if you held together that long. but it would have taken years D'hara would have driven most of old Solaria rogue in the meantime, along with constant other raids. That and Fissoa would have been crushed by Aurvandil/Flakirk.

[Stabbity]

Are you high? You looted one region... Once. D'hara failed in that war miserably, and with Luria free to attack D'hara and only D'hara, D'hara would cave. D'hara couldn't feed those regions, and they would have been a non issue, leaving Luria free to sweep over all of actual D'hara, with its far bigger army. D'hara lost that war. LOST. Their ally was destroyed, and they were spared only by the interference of Morek.

[JeVondair]

If you believe all that, then pull the trigger. Ring the Bell and start Round 2!

Luria Nova will not be winning an offensive war against D'Hara.

[Stabbity]

Well, if D'hara thinks it can win against a foe with 17k cs more than it, good for them.

[Gustav Kuriga]

It seems a Capet is making various threats to various nobles, and making the church look more the fool by the minute. D: