Why so few Infiltrators?

[Dante Silverfire]

This, I think is not likely. This is a balance issue.

However, it might (might) be possible to introduce different levels of maximum sentence based on the crime you were caught for. If you were only caught stealing chickens the first time, execution is a bit extreme.

I think if you introduce something like that, then you should also make it possible to execute someone caught trying to kill a ruler, even if they have no ban. As that would be the highest of crimes.

[Sarwell]

One possibility on the subject of raiding temples and guildhouses: being able to break in and access things like member logs without joining the group. With a chance, of course, of getting caught. Something along those lines, anyway.

[Anaris]

I think if you introduce something like that, then you should also make it possible to execute someone caught trying to kill a ruler, even if they have no ban. As that would be the highest of crimes.

Only if it were actually possible to kill a ruler.

[Dante Silverfire]

Only if it were actually possible to kill a ruler.

Well I've already said that I thought infil's should have more power.

However, I know that's been shot down already.

My only thing is, it is hard enough to get rid of infiltrators that are constantly attacking you anyway at this point. Why make it more difficult?

[Anaris]

Well I've already said that I thought infil's should have more power.

However, I know that's been shot down already.

My only thing is, it is hard enough to get rid of infiltrators that are constantly attacking you anyway at this point. Why make it more difficult?

Based on everything I've said so far, what leads you to believe that I would support making it more difficult to execute an infiltrator who has been persistently assaulting nobles?

[Zakilevo]

It is already hard enough to stab a noble with even a small unit :p Can't even go near a guy leading 100 men.

Back when the game had more people, many people were leading smaller units but now even new people are leading 30-40 men...

[Lorgan]

Yes it should be easier and more risk free to stab people (as in fail, but get away anyway. That doesn't really happen, ever.). This would naturally lead to more overture in realms and thus more opportunity for new nobles.

[Anaris]

Yes it should be easier and more risk free to stab people (as in fail, but get away anyway. That doesn't really happen, ever.). This would naturally lead to more overture in realms and thus more opportunity for new nobles.

I think that's probably a good idea, too. Increase the skill required to succeed slightly, but also decrease the skill required to have a good chance of getting away clean.

[Tiridia]

Infiltrators might be able to kill captains.

Though the idea about searching for secret societies is something that quite literally sent chills down my spine. Just to be able to locate some, to learn the name of the society and where it is, that alone would be very very nice. Though naturally one could expand on that, like an extremely rare ability to get a letter sent to the society or some such.

Anything that makes the class more towards spymaster / intrigue type of play is good in my book.

Perhaps there might be a kind of an "assassination light" button that does not wound you but just makes you lose some or all hours at the turn change. So whatever you thought you had enough time to do you suddenly do not. Someone messed your papers, or the negotiation you entered took longer than expected, or the wine you drank just made you incredibly drowsy. You could get even more variables by choosing to either target one character or everyone in the region. A bit like messing with them signs, but more broad usage.

Also, you could "intercept scouts", which would basically mean that anyone sending scouts to your region stands a significantly higher chance of never hearing of them again. Though this would be pretty much a defensive act and perhaps not even illegal. Though it could still be risky, if the scout fought you back and dragged you back to his master's dungeon.

Or you could confuse scouts by presenting them with reports of a significant portion of the troops missing.

Your own scouts, of course, would be less prone to such maneuvers, depending on your skill.

Also, you might harass food trades. For the easy jobs, the food would just go missing for some time. For the hard jobs you could make it look like the lord sold it to the enemy or to the black market (if the feature works). As a bonus it would add some plausible deniability to lords actually selling to someone they should not.

Perhaps have some actions where you may manipulate the stats of a region by creating scandals.

Maybe just an option to create scandals to hit the target's honor and prestige?

Sorry for the wall of text. I just love the class and would like to see more use for it, especially with intrigue.

[Anaris]

Infiltrators might be able to kill captains.

Not a bad idea. Should be more risky than attempting to kill men in a unit, which should be more risky than attempting to kill militia.

Perhaps there might be a kind of an "assassination light" button that does not wound you but just makes you lose some or all hours at the turn change. So whatever you thought you had enough time to do you suddenly do not. Someone messed your papers, or the negotiation you entered took longer than expected, or the wine you drank just made you incredibly drowsy. You could get even more variables by choosing to either target one character or everyone in the region. A bit like messing with them signs, but more broad usage.

Ooh, I like that one! That's a very cool idea.

Also, you could "intercept scouts", which would basically mean that anyone sending scouts to your region stands a significantly higher chance of never hearing of them again. Though this would be pretty much a defensive act and perhaps not even illegal. Though it could still be risky, if the scout fought you back and dragged you back to his master's dungeon.

Mm, not sure about this. This sounds almost more like a unit ability, particularly given that scouts would be single men sneaking through the woods (or whatever the local equivalent is), and the odds of one infiltrator sneaking through the woods to find them are pretty low.

Also, you might harass food trades. For the easy jobs, the food would just go missing for some time. For the hard jobs you could make it look like the lord sold it to the enemy or to the black market (if the feature works). As a bonus it would add some plausible deniability to lords actually selling to someone they should not.

I think that ability should go to traders. Give them something useful to do again.

Perhaps have some actions where you may manipulate the stats of a region by creating scandals.

Maybe just an option to create scandals to hit the target's honor and prestige?

Not sure about that. I like the spymaster/intrigue angle, but this sort of thing is so far from the infiltrator's usual purview that I'd hesitate to add it.

Might be something to consider for the diplomat, though.

[Zakilevo]

How about an ability to shut a market for a full day?

It would be useful if you are assaulting a big city which needs to buy food every day.

Or a city that needs to buy food soon to prevent itself from starving.

[de Aquitane]

It would be hilarious if high level infils could frame other nobles. That is, just like there is the "it's reported this and this noble was seen escaping from the scene", the same would happen except with the name of a random noble in the same region. Currently you have to be very passive with your infitrators if you do not want to be very obvious that you are an infiltrator, which in my opinion is a bit against the fun of it.

Would also give more motivation to RP trials in realm. I always find those fun.

[Tiridia]

Anaris,

I suppose you are right about the trader and diplomat classes as more fitting for some of the suggested features. If skilled traders could forge papers such as to mess with the buy and sell orders, they would definitely be very valuable. I am imagining a group of traders arranging some covert shipments of food such as to move the bushels here and there before having them land to their actual receiver. Or a trader nibbling away a small share of the food - too small really for anyone to notice or for him to get caught, but which would over time add up some.

Diplomats creating scandals would be very fitting too. I think it would be nice if scandals were by nature unpredictable, with potentially very rare and severe consequences. They could backfire too, of course.

But back to infiltrators - have them sabotage gear at tournaments. Or even get some participant too drunk to be able to fight. Naturally this would be very very ignoble and dishonorable.

[Dishman]

I've always wanted a brigand option for BM. How about letting infiltrators attack the defenseless peasantry for a low risk? A mixture of 'kill militia' and/or 'loot tax gold'. Why risk robbing a well guarded bank when you can get the same amount out of 5 or 6 middle class houses who leave their door open?

It could be balanced however the devs want, make it nearly useless for gold (but a way to grind experience), make it as risky as killing militia, or something that may not even be reported until taxday.

[Anaris]

I've always wanted a brigand option for BM. How about letting infiltrators attack the defenseless peasantry for a low risk? A mixture of 'kill militia' and/or 'loot tax gold'. Why risk robbing a well guarded bank when you can get the same amount out of 5 or 6 middle class houses who leave their door open?

It could be balanced however the devs want, make it nearly useless for gold (but a way to grind experience), make it as risky as killing militia, or something that may not even be reported until taxday.

How would brigandage give you experience as an infiltrator? That's just another looting option.