Player Harassment and Creation of a Toxic Atmosphere

[GoldPanda]

I can't claim perfect memory either. I just feel that it would be more fair if TH included all messages from the players involved, including the ones he sent. But perhaps that is not practical. That would be a lot of messages to read through.

I believe the argument was that some nobles were ICly refusing to recognize Silnaria as a realm. Then TH chimed in OOCly that game mechanics trumps RP, and therefore Silnaria is too a real realm. And then I said, "Exactly, game mechanics trumps RP, so CE is still allied with Coria, not Silnaria." I can't guarantee that it was TH who sent the message, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't start the whole argument. I was responding to someone else.

Anyway, if you arrange the messages chronologically, I believe everyone will see that the timeline is:

~4 weeks ago: Merlin founds Silnaria

A flurry of OOC jokes about the realm name and OOC criticism of Merlin in the League of the Eagle guild.

Merlin sent this message:

Out-of-Character from Merlin Silverfire   (31 days, 8 hours ago)
Message sent to everyone in "League of the Eagle" (50 recipients)
If the 5th strongest realm on Atamara isn't real, then I don't know what is.

At any rate, I think these conversations can be kept out of the realm of OOC. If you want to hate on my character, do it in game so that there are repercussions for it.
TH

A few occasional IC jokes about the realm name and IC criticism of Merlin in the League of the Eagle guild. Which stops after about two weeks.

Wansu (Jason's player), who was not in the guild (not to mention I'm pretty sure he was paused at the time) and therefore not privy to all these messages, sent his OOC messages.

And speaking of Wansu's messages, while I agree that they were fairly offensive by Western standards, we have to remind ourselves that we have players from all over the world. I hear that, in some less civilized corners of the world, "fag" means "cigarette".  ;) These incidents should be treated as teachable moments (for both the speaker and the listeners), not opportunities to whip ourselves into some righteous, politically correct fury.

[Vita`]

I believe the argument was that some nobles were ICly refusing to recognize Silnaria as a realm. Then TH chimed in OOCly that game mechanics trumps RP, and therefore Silnaria is too a real realm. And then I said, "Exactly, game mechanics trumps RP, so CE is still allied with Coria, not Silnaria." I can't guarantee that it was TH who sent the message, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't start the whole argument. I was responding to someone else.

My memory recalls it being some taran noble that brought up the OOC 'the League is allied with Coria, not Silnaria' so game mechanics trump roleplay argument, not TH.

[Stabbity]

Used in certain context its not possible to sanely state he was referring to a cigarette. Hammergay was used, and no one describes a group of people as cigarettes. Quit trying to !@#$ing twist !@#$ thats plain as day. When you use fag in reference to people it is never, ever tobacco rolled in paper.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Used in certain context its not possible to sanely state he was referring to a cigarette. Hammergay was used, and no one describes a group of people as cigarettes. Quit trying to !@#$ing twist !@#$ thats plain as day. When you use fag in reference to people it is never, ever tobacco rolled in paper.

As someone who is bisexual, i find the attempt to explain it away as that doubly insulting.

[GoldPanda]

Used in certain context its not possible to sanely state he was referring to a cigarette. Hammergay was used, and no one describes a group of people as cigarettes. Quit trying to !@#$ing twist !@#$ thats plain as day. When you use fag in reference to people it is never, ever tobacco rolled in paper.

I was just using that as an example, as Wansu obviously did not say "fag". If you want a better example, maybe in India "gay" still means "happy". I don't know. I'm not an ethnolinguist.

Must you be so hostile all the time?

[jaune]

Must you be so hostile all the time?

I'm pretty sure thats what Silverfire felt reading all those messages.

What ticks me a bit, is that you dont seem to see anything wrong on those messages or the "gangbang" ooc/ic mocking?
I think we all can agree that those wasnt as individual messages that bad, but when there is several people pointing fingers 1 person and mocking him... we have problem. Not sure if it is worth anything else than inform people doing it that it sucks... but what worrys me is that you dont seem to see anything wrong happening here.

[Blue Star]

Magistrates please close this file and vote. Though the respected parties have spoken beside Jason elegant, I believe it is going into bickering and well useless chatter.

Yes, you can share your opinion of the matter, but at the end lets keep it steady and clean. I personally am not excited or enthusiastic on these circumstance that have arisen through when I see as in-game/ OCC mingling. It's perplexing what occurred, I am not saying it isn't. Weak case strong case that's not up to many of us.

Please lock this thread and vote, I am not asking but simply requesting. The talks going on are a month old in RL, I wonder why it took so long to come up but it did. I do wish this issue is resolved for it has made me question a few things.

I do see though his point, but I do see others. Let our judges vote and be done with it. I've seen a few comment regarding they are upset and may leave game, that is their choice, let us get over with this issue and move forth and make AT better...

I see this as do not speak OCC regarding another player and keep your mouth shut OCC wise. Sadly this is the precedent that is unfolding....

This game needs more people with thick skin, I take every insults as a character never as a player this is a game to have fun and isn't to win.

[GoldPanda]

I'm pretty sure thats what Silverfire felt reading all those messages.

What ticks me a bit, is that you dont seem to see anything wrong on those messages or the "gangbang" ooc/ic mocking?
I think we all can agree that those wasnt as individual messages that bad, but when there is several people pointing fingers 1 person and mocking him... we have problem. Not sure if it is worth anything else than inform people doing it that it sucks... but what worrys me is that you dont seem to see anything wrong happening here.

Except I'm trying to talk to him about it, not dragging him in front of the Magistrates as first reaction.

And for the umpteenth time, it's fine if it's directed against a noble. I personally find "suck my sock" to be offensive and hostile, because we both know you don't really mean "sock", but I'm not reporting you or Lavigna to the Magistrates because I understand that it's all in-character.

You are free to disagree. I guess the solution is going to be ceasing all in-game and in-forum communication with certain players... Now that's just sad.

[Lavigna]

And for the umpteenth time, it's fine if it's directed against a noble. I personally find "suck my sock" to be offensive and hostile, because we both know you don't really mean "sock", but I'm not reporting you or Lavigna to the Magistrates because I understand that it's all in-character.

Whoa, you must be new here.KK has actually posted that as an answer IN CHARACTER to rulers, he even received reports for vulgarity and received his loss of honor points for it.

So yeah.lol sad panda. Also it actually mean socks, dirty ones, dirty king's socks.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

Except I'm trying to talk to him about it, not dragging him in front of the Magistrates as first reaction.

And for the umpteenth time, it's fine if it's directed against a noble. I personally find "suck my sock" to be offensive and hostile, because we both know you don't really mean "sock", but I'm not reporting you or Lavigna to the Magistrates because I understand that it's all in-character.

You are free to disagree. I guess the solution is going to be ceasing all in-game and in-forum communication with certain players... Now that's just sad.

Please refrain from using stupid excuses for things that happen not in game but maybe in the forums or elsewhere in your defense. It is pathetic and you miss the point entirely. Especially since there are people who read your awesome post about women biology and the meetings they should have with a special kind of doctor.

[GoldPanda]

Whoa, you must be new here.KK has actually posted that as an answer IN CHARACTER to rulers, he even received reports for vulgarity and received his loss of honor points for it.

So yeah.lol sad panda. Also it actually mean socks, dirty ones, dirty king's socks.

I don't think someone who insists on repeatedly calling me "Sad Panda" should judge whether I'm creating a toxic atmosphere for other players.

[Dante Silverfire]

I agree with the sentiment of closing this thread until a verdict is reached, unless the Magistrates have more questions to ask. This discussion is not helping anything.

If Jason has any comments he wants to add, he should be allowed to do so though.

[Elegant]

Dear Magistrates,

Sorry for being late as I was on holiday. I had informed people in game that my reply would come on Monday night. Now I want to post in the thread     BattleMaster Forum »BattleMaster »The Courthouse »Cases »Player Harassment and Creation of a Toxic Atmosphere.

Please give me a chance to explain myself before reaching the verdict. Please open the topic so that I can post it there:

1. I have been listed as the primary accused and others are listed as secondary and contributing. I have strong objection to this. I was autopaused at the time when the other people sent out those letters, so, how can they "support" me while I was not present at all? Secondly, after resuming the game, I was not a member of the league for sometime.

2. False accusation : "Jason Elegant's player in particular should receive a harsh punishment because he has already been warned by the Magistrates before for this same action. This is a repeated offense." I have to say that this is not a repeat offense. Please refer to the verdict of earlier case. It is written that:

"Where the character Jason had a good and valid justification for attacking the character Merlin, the Magistrates cannot accept that a few words written in anger on the forum should come to invalidate what was, up until that point, a normal (if intense) interaction between two characters, especially where other characters were also attacking Merlin using much the same tactics." ......."While we decline to rule fully in favor of the claimant, we would still like to recognize that what Elegant said on the forum went a little too far.

I was given warning due to my regrettable behavior on forums where I said some things which I still regret. I still feel bad for what I did, as a person, on forum. I will never ever repeat it. Therefore, there is no repeated offense.

3. Now lets see the two letters of Jason which are under question. Please imagine a situation where there are two enemies : a king Merlin and a knight Jason. Both of them are not friendly. Then knight Jason writes a story which is meant to remind others about what Merlin promised, but what he did. He also has to give a warning to king Merlin that his realm will be destroyed. knight Jason could do it in simple words like "you Merlin...did this and that and as a result, you will face this/that....". But, nobles have to be creative while spreading true/false propaganda. So, Jason wrote those two letters containing veiled warning.

4. If character Merlin thinks that it is a false propaganda spread by some knight Jason, then he could complain to the elders and get jason kicked. If the guild thinks that Jason is wrong, then they have the powers to punish him, on the recommendation of king Merlin. But, instead of doing this, the player of Merlin comes here and registers a complaint in forums to punish the player of Jason. How is this justified?

5. The character Merlin knows that he is opposed by many in the guild. If someone remains in a hostile guild, he will receive some unfriendly treatment. The best way should be either get the hostiles removed or leave that guild, instead of complaining on the forums that there are hostiles in the guild. Join some guild where you have friends. The magistrate system should not be misused to get acceptance inside a guild.

[Velax]

So has a verdict been reached yet? The last post in this topic was nearly three weeks ago.

[Geronus]

The proposed verdict has been posted in the Backroom. Barring substantial objections to it, it will be posted here within a day or two.