Religion/Role Playing Question

[Varwulf]

I was looking for some input from the community about an idea I've been mulling over for awhile now.  Essentially, when my hero dies off and I tire of some of my other characters, I had a desire to start up a religion in the future with one or two characters at the reigns of said religion.

I've never been hugely involved with any of my characters with religion (one of my characters IS an elder of a religion, but I had no part in its founding, construction, expansion, etc).  As such, I need some guidance...

Essentially what I seek is to found a religion that is in some ways a cross between real world Druidism and Buddhism.  This is interesting to me because the religion would essentially be on par with a reformed pagan religion of sorts (the Druidism), but also be pacifistic in nature (Buddhism).  My intent was for the religion's foundation to be build on the idea of non-violence, even perhaps going so far as to not seek punishment or compensation for destroyed temples, etc.

I just wanted to know what people thought the feasibility/survivability of such a religion might be?  Would it perhaps be better made as a secret society instead, since the religion isn't necessarily about spreading itself to all corners of the world and forcefully converting others.  I am aware such an idea would be difficult to implement and diplomacy might even be non-existent if the leaders of other religions decided to take advantage of the pacifist ways of this one.

Anyway, I'm more or less just drumming out some ideas and trying to 'plan ahead' for my future playing of Battlemaster.  I'm open for any and all suggestions/commentary.

[Foxglove]

The non-aggression aspect has some similarities to the Church of Humanity in that they don't use the more forceful religious options, but it sounds like you'd want to take it much further. The immediate challenge I can see you having for the RP is reconciling the fact that most of the nobles you could potentially recruit will be warriors who won't follow a pacifist faith. Of course, you could make it a faith for those who abandon violence to become courtiers, traders, etc. But that would mean you'd probably have to accept it would have a small number of noble followers.

But it's feasible and it could survive. For survival, you just need to find nobles willing to covert and then others willing to allow your temples to stay open once they govern the region. One way I can think you might do this is by making the religion a sort of realm-neutral diplomatic corps that commands respect from all parties. In part, that's how the druids operated in pre-Roman Britain. Of course, the British druids were also so powerful that they could walk between two warring armies and tell them both to stop fighting and go home. And the armies would do as they were told... unlike BM players

[Revan]

There used to be a religion on Beluaterra called The Living Earth that was similar in some respects. They worshipped Zisa, the Earth Mother and they were pacifists too. Consequently, it was a very small faith. I was briefly a member and it only had a few nobles and a smattering of temples. But they had managed to carve themselves a small niche in Mesh over some years. So what you want to do is possible, but it probably will be a struggle.

[Varwulf]

The other thing I wanted to ask (and this seems to be an obvious answer) is what do you think would possibly be the best 'class' for a character who was to be RPed as a druid?  The problem I see with the Adventurer class is that being non-noble, anyone can execute one for any reason, which not only proves to be a challenge but can also be a bit silly.  Additionally, though I could envision such a thing in real life as well, nobles will treat them like dirt if they are Adventurers

It does open up some interesting ideas though, where the 'Archdruids' could be the priests (nobles) of various realms and the lesser druids would be playing as adventurers, running around, fighting evil, dealing with sages, etc.  It all sounds well and good but getting people to join would be the tricky part

The non-aggression aspect has some similarities to the Church of Humanity in that they don't use the more forceful religious options, but it sounds like you'd want to take it much further. The immediate challenge I can see you having for the RP is reconciling the fact that most of the nobles you could potentially recruit will be warriors who won't follow a pacifist faith. Of course, you could make it a faith for those who abandon violence to become courtiers, traders, etc. But that would mean you'd probably have to accept it would have a small number of noble followers.

But it's feasible and it could survive. For survival, you just need to find nobles willing to covert and then others willing to allow your temples to stay open once they govern the region. One way I can think you might do this is by making the religion a sort of realm-neutral diplomatic corps that commands respect from all parties. In part, that's how the druids operated in pre-Roman Britain. Of course, the British druids were also so powerful that they could walk between two warring armies and tell them both to stop fighting and go home. And the armies would do as they were told... unlike BM players

That is actually what I was thinking as well, and I am glad you brought up the pre-Roman Druids and the power they had over the various warlords in their land.  It certainly is an impressive piece of information and I wish I could find more about it.

It is also a surprise, and interesting, to hear that a similar idea has already been tried on BM and I wasn't aware of it.  Still, this does at least give me a little bit of faith that the idea might be feasible

But yes, what you described is very similar to what I had in mind.  I like the realm-neutral aspect as you mentioned.

There used to be a religion on Beluaterra called The Living Earth that was similar in some respects. They worshipped Zisa, the Earth Mother and they were pacifists too. Consequently, it was a very small faith. I was briefly a member and it only had a few nobles and a smattering of temples. But they had managed to carve themselves a small niche in Mesh over some years. So what you want to do is possible, but it probably will be a struggle.

Another religion I never heard of, but it certainly is impressive to hear that they did manage to carve out a nice little piece of land to call their own, more or less.  Thank you for that valuable information, I do appreciate it

[Foxglove]

The other thing I wanted to ask (and this seems to be an obvious answer) is what do you think would possibly be the best 'class' for a character who was to be RPed as a druid?

Diplomat/Ambassador, I would say. That pretty much links into the role that druids held in Celtic society in Gaul and Britain.

That is actually what I was thinking as well, and I am glad you brought up the pre-Roman Druids and the power they had over the various warlords in their land.  It certainly is an impressive piece of information and I wish I could find more about it.

The idea of druids being able to walk between two armies and stop a war comes from an ancient Greek historian named Poseidonios who actually travelled to Gaul to study the celtic tribes.

Julius Ceaser wrote quite a bit about the power of the druids in the De Bello Gallico. These are some sections taken from Book VI: 13 and 14 (typing the whole thing out would take too long, so I'm just picking out a few sections).

Large numbers of young men flock to them for instruction, and they are held in great honour by their people. They act as judges in practically all disputes, whether between tribes or between individuals; when any crime takes place, or a dispute arises about an inheritance or a boundary, it is they who adjudicate the matter and appoint the compensation to be paid and received by the parties concerned. Any individual or tribe failing to accept their award is banned from taking part in sacrifice. Those who are laid under such a ban are regarded as impious criminals. Everyone shuns them and avoids going near or speaking to them, for fear of taking some harm from contact with what is unclean...

...The druids are exempt from military service and do not pay taxes like other citizens...

...A lesson which they take particular pains to inculcate is that the soul does not perish, but after death passes from one body to another; they think this is the best incentive to bravery, because it teaches men to disregard the terrors of death. They also hold long discussions about the heavenly bodies and their movements, the size of the universe and of the earth, the physical constitution of the world, and the powers and properties of the gods.

[Eduardo Almighty]

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Avalon/Religion/Druids

Not so much information, but we had an Order of Druids in Beluaterra. Yeux was Grand Druid before leave Avalon and found the Bloodspeakers.

[Indirik]

I do like it when people come up with unique RP aspects for IG religions. However, I don't really see this particular concept as all that viable. A pacifist religion in BattleMaster? That's like sitting down to play a multi-player auto racing game with some friends, and picking the car that doesn't run. And then telling all your buddies that they have to pick the car that doesn't run, too.

RPing is great. Having a good RP concept for your religion is great. Self-imposed limitations based on your RP'd theology is great. But the self-imposed limitations need to not be so restrictive that the players involved are restricted from experiencing the majority of what the game is all about.

Maybe this concept just isn't for me. But I can't really see it gaining much (any?) traction so long as its core concept is pacifism to the point that even self-defense is forbidden. I can't even see this gaining any traction as a guild, either.

[egamma]

I do like it when people come up with unique RP aspects for IG religions. However, I don't really see this particular concept as all that viable. A pacifist religion in BattleMaster? That's like sitting down to play a multi-player auto racing game with some friends, and picking the car that doesn't run. And then telling all your buddies that they have to pick the car that doesn't run, too.

RPing is great. Having a good RP concept for your religion is great. Self-imposed limitations based on your RP'd theology is great. But the self-imposed limitations need to not be so restrictive that the players involved are restricted from experiencing the majority of what the game is all about.

Maybe this concept just isn't for me. But I can't really see it gaining much (any?) traction so long as its core concept is pacifism to the point that even self-defense is forbidden. I can't even see this gaining any traction as a guild, either.

Same here; I scrolled down to say exactly this. We need more battles in battlemaster, not less; otherwise we will continue to lose players and not attract new players.

[Eduardo Almighty]

Berserks. A druidstic (?) concept without peace mongers.

[egamma]

The "greenpeace" religion?

[Vellos]

Do I hear people calling for a resurrection of Qyrvaggism?

[Varwulf]

So I've been contemplating this for some time and am in agreement with the 'more battles' thing, as I personally suffer from being in realms with less nobles than there are regions.  As such, as much as I like the original idea, I would not want to add to that problem.

So I am going to outline then just a few basics for this idea, in its modified form.

1) I want to stick with the Druidism idea, the whole idea of this religion centers around animals, nature and neutrality.
2) Barring that, I think the 'religion' would be best off being comprised of an official religion and possibly a guild.
    A) If it is a religion, it can at least be 'religiously' peaceful, IE, tolerant of other religions and not seeking out the destruction of other faiths.
    B) With the guild house 'attachment', it could be an order than can 'spread' to other regions that do not carry the faith (that'd sort of tie in with the religious tolerance issue, lords not of the faith could construct guild houses of the 'faith' and not be part of the faith officially, IE, religious tolerance).
    C) This would open up the entire structure to a potentially more organized 'economy' and communication structure with various ranks for faithful and non-faithful members.
3) Going back to what I said before about having adventurers take on the role of 'lesser druids' (IE, fighting evil), this would allow priests and the like to take on the role/title of 'Druid' in order to spread the faith and potentially act as neutral mediators when necessary.  The guild/religion's primary focus would be fighting 'evil', rather than stepping on the toes of others, but this doesn't mean that the order would be opposed to the idea of declaring various realms as 'evil' in a similar light to the monsters, undead, daimons, etc that plague the lands.

Overall, I am going to keep working on this idea until it seems to be an ideal fit for the game, I think I can make it work but I am sure there is still much to consider.  I haven't had a whole lot of time to think about it since my last post (work, work, work...) but this is sort of where I sit with it right now.

I like the idea of involving adventurers because it gives them something to do and potential RP involvement with non-commoners that can lead to the adventurer's player taking an interest in a particular realm and perhaps creating a new character there, or, getting his/her adventurer up to noble status and thus exiting the status of 'lesser' druid.

I also like the idea of involving priests as sort of the middle-high range members of the order, and combining the guild house with the religion means the order can be more flexible in who it has as members as well as survive even if the religion in general flops (sort of how the whole concept of a 'Druid' exists today, yet the pagan faiths surrounding it have waned considerably over time).

Any additional thoughts on the matter?

[Penchant]

Just something to add, if the religion is open to fighting evil, you don't have to expand at a super slow rate because of religious tolerance because you could just declare religions evil. Its kind of like those who want peace prepare for war, except its more like you want peace thus you are taking out the evil religions causing aggression. While most founder's likely try to be spiritual and not use it for politics, you could do it not necessarily for your realm but seek out bribes for either overlooking that which is supposed to be considered evil, or finding a reason that a peaceful realm/religion is actually evil.

[Dishman]

As far as a Druid religion, this sounds much to peaceful. You need zealot priests who can run a sacrifice alter on the battlefield until the mountain of cracked skulls shade the high priest's lounge chairs.