Question

[Shizzle]

Here's the thing:

• Two advy's duel each other (with approval of the Judge). The winning Advy has an IC brother, who is also the Lord of the region the duel took place in.
  
  
• The Lord throws the losing Advy in jail for causing trouble (but not his advy 'brother'), and then the Judge decides to steal the 125 gold the losing Advy had on him (for "causing trouble to the Lord").
  
  
  • As far as I know, there has been no in-game contact between said Lord and the punished advy.

Now, imagine your noble character is the losing adventurers 'Liege' in a Guild, and part of the money the adventurer owned was given to him by you. What would you do?

[Hyral]

Was the losing adventurer really causing trouble? If he was, I wouldn't admit that he's affiliated with me or my gold.

But if the other lord was just being a jerk, I'd  quietly go about apologizing to the judge for busying him with my silly pet-advy and inform him that x-amount of the confiscated gold was actually entrusted to the poor sod by myself for whatever very-legitimate-reason and politely ask to have it returned to me.  That said, if by "given to him by you" you mean this gold was payment for a unique item, well, it's a blow to my pride, but, it's not really my gold anymore so there's nothing for me to do.

[Shizzle]

As far as I know, he did not cause any trouble, before being sent to jail at least.

Don't I have a responsability towards him, being his Liege? Didn't the Feudal society work in both directions? That's why I posted this in Background, really :)

[Hyral]

Well, you did ask what we would do ^^; I'll wait for one of the masters to speak on the hierarchy, but I would think if it comes down to the word of a noble against the word of a commoner, it wouldn't make sense for you to take the word of a commoner over that of a fellow noble, a lord, no less, in his own region. I mean, maybe if he was your *knight*, but he's just a wandering peasant. Your responsibility towards him would have been to teach him to keep his head down around testy region lords.

[Vellos]

You don't have a responsibility to protect him from the legitimate authority of the feudal hierarchy.

You do have a responsibility to protect your own power. Want that adventurer's undying loyalty? Stick up for him. Don't care? Don't.

But Hyral's proposal sounds very reasonable. No noble would humiliate himself by publicly claiming the adventurer. But a quiet intervention, a sort of patronizing intervention that keeps the adventurer as "beneath," could be SMA.

[De-Legro]

No noble should debase themselves by admitting they have a brother or other relative that is an advy either, even if they only admit that to themselves. Acting on behalf of this lowly relative in the first place seems to be the biggest breach to me. The other advy is your property and had on his person gold belonging to you. Some small and reasonable level of recompense could well be due to you, depending entirely of the position of advies in your realm.

[Shizzle]

No noble should debase themselves by admitting they have a brother or other relative that is an advy either, even if they only admit that to themselves. Acting on behalf of this lowly relative in the first place seems to be the biggest breach to me. The other advy is your property and had on his person gold belonging to you. Some small and reasonable level of recompense could well be due to you, depending entirely of the position of advies in your realm.

Well, yes, it was that breach that caused me to react. However, it totally spun out of control, causing an SMA flamewar between my character and pretty much the rest of the realm :D well, at least it spiced things up... :)

Can a Judge really just 'confiscate' over a hundred gold for no reason? From a Freeman? Surely they must have some rights, and if they find a noble to defend those, shouldn't those be heard? I mean, what else would be the difference with an outlaw, if they are both rightless?

Maybe I'm wrong, but the way I see it Freemen have certain base rights (property rights, for instance). They cannot defend their own rights however, certainly not against the nobility, but if they find a noble caretaker, shouldn't that make the claim legit?

[Shizzle]

So what I'm saying is: it really doesn't come down to a fight between the noble's and the commoner's word. The commoner has no voice. But if I /choose/ to defend the commoner (not another character of mine or anything), wouldn't that make it a fight between my 'noble word' against his?

Also: now that advy has been personally recognised as the Lord's brother, I /had/ to promote him to a rank suitable for his lineage. Making him pay 30 gold each month :D

[songqu88@gmail.com]

That lord actually says that a commoner is his brother? Man, I'd be all like "Yo get this guy outta the lordship. His brother's a commoner, clearly he is not worthy of being a lord."

I wonder if this kind of stuff gets sent as SMA complaints if they ever occurred on Dwilight.

[Hyral]

So what I'm saying is: it really doesn't come down to a fight between the noble's and the commoner's word. The commoner has no voice. But if I /choose/ to defend the commoner (not another character of mine or anything), wouldn't that make it a fight between my 'noble word' against his?

Also: now that advy has been personally recognised as the Lord's brother, I /had/ to promote him to a rank suitable for his lineage. Making him pay 30 gold each month :D

It's still your noble taking a commoner's word over a noble's word. But to be fair, you're dealing with a noble who's singing to the wind that his brother is a commoner. I don't know that there's a point in going for 'proper action' anymore...

Also: Nicely done.

[Shizzle]

Well, this happened on Dwilight.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

SMA complaint, maybe?

[Jens Namtrah]

We went one better.

Advy who was imprisoned and robbed was member of an Advy Guild. He called on all his Guild Brothers to leave the realm and let the monsters take over. The Judge's short-sightedness in grabbing 125 gold will, over time,  probably cost the realm additional 1000's in recruits to keep the monsters and undead at bay.

Freemen aren't nobles, and are pretty well stuck if a noble cheats them. But they aren't outlaw's, either. They DO have certain recourse they can take, if they play their cards right, especially on a "new" and wild island like Dwilight.

[Shizzle]

My Advy guild ;) I'm thinking to relocate the members in conflict with the Fissoan nobility to Asylon, and create a new branch of our Guild there. :)

[Jens Namtrah]

I'm thinking to relocate the members

there's where you are having the same trouble understanding things as the other nobles. We aren't "yours" to relocate.

explain why we want to march 200 hours off into the wild, unknown area of west Dwilight when we can carry on perfectly well moving a day or two north. Advies are characters with thoughts and reasons for actions, as well.