Monsters and Undead - more or less? Vote

[Anaris]

If that is the case, then it should be a short-term surge of monster spawns that quickly shrink realms and is over within two or three weeks.

If spawn rates are brought to this level on the long term, then realms will do nothing but fight monsters and will be incapable of going to war against player-controlled realms. The beginning of Dwilight allowed for fun RP while people were establishing the realms' cultures and colonized the land, but there were very few wars.

I'm afraid I can't agree with this, at all.

First of all, "two or three weeks" is an absurdly short time for such a thing to happen. If realms are to be actually shrunk within that time enough to raise the noble-to-controlled-region ratio, the spawn rates will have to be so high that we end up with titanic monster armies smashing everything in their path.

Second of all, if the spawn rates are jacked up, regions are lost, and the spawn rates go right back down, guess what will happen? Everyone will just take back those regions, thus making it a pointless effort.

It is not possible to have monsters strong enough to significantly shrink realms, and keep them shrunk, without providing the kind of threat that existed in early Dwilight.

But you know what? Even while there were monster threats, most of Dwilight was able to interact with other realms, have wars, and in general lead a mostly normal existence. It was only certain pockets (like Luria) that were cut off from all civilization pretty much until all the land was colonized.

[vonGenf]

First of all, "two or three weeks" is an absurdly short time for such a thing to happen. If realms are to be actually shrunk within that time enough to raise the noble-to-controlled-region ratio, the spawn rates will have to be so high that we end up with titanic monster armies smashing everything in their path.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I imagined, an invasion Beluaterra-like. Maybe you spawn 100'000 CS of monsters and let them loose, and see who survives. That would shake up the status quo.

Second of all, if the spawn rates are jacked up, regions are lost, and the spawn rates go right back down, guess what will happen? Everyone will just take back those regions, thus making it a pointless effort.

It is not possible to have monsters strong enough to significantly shrink realms, and keep them shrunk, without providing the kind of threat that existed in early Dwilight.

But you know what? Even while there were monster threats, most of Dwilight was able to interact with other realms, have wars, and in general lead a mostly normal existence. It was only certain pockets (like Luria) that were cut off from all civilization pretty much until all the land was colonized.

Not Dwilight: Northeastern Dwilight, maybe. The whole western island was empty or had barely surviving realms. To reproduce this effect, you would have to raise the monsters spawns asymmetrically. You could do that of course, but this is a discussion that relates to closing islands or parts of islands.

If you did it equally everywhere, then you'd end up with pockets, kind of like Beluaterra during the invasions where all realms holed up behind walls and monsters roamed the countryside. You can't have any RvR war in these conditions.

[pcw27]

Increase both as well droughts. If a rogue spawn pops up there should be a good chance you will lose the region if you don't intervene in time. That creates potential for conflict over the region both internal and external.

Also I'd like to see a plague feature. It could be designed to give courtiers and/or priests more to do. You could introduce paraphenalia called plague doctors, which you send out to find and contain early outbreaks before they become a full on plague. Rumors of plague could come up in the "listen to rumors" feature. When plague breaks out they can then use police to "quarantine region" keeping the infected from moving to other regions.

[Anaris]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I imagined, an invasion Beluaterra-like. Maybe you spawn 100'000 CS of monsters and let them loose, and see who survives. That would shake up the status quo.

That's nothing like a Beluaterra invasion.

The closest was the Second Invasion, where the spawn rates (mostly of undead) gradually climbed to unmanageable levels, then just stayed there. For months.

Not Dwilight: Northeastern Dwilight, maybe. The whole western island was empty or had barely surviving realms. To reproduce this effect, you would have to raise the monsters spawns asymmetrically. You could do that of course, but this is a discussion that relates to closing islands or parts of islands.

Yes, it was empty, because everyone started in the east.

I'm not talking about trying to exactly replicate the conditions of early Dwilight. If spawn rates were raised all over, or in certain strategic locations (for instance, in all the mountainous areas; that would be a nice simple way to code it), that would reduce the amount of controlled land without completely preventing meaningful PvP interaction.

[vonGenf]

in certain strategic locations (for instance, in all the mountainous areas; that would be a nice simple way to code it), that would reduce the amount of controlled land without completely preventing meaningful PvP interaction.

That would be an interesting way to do it, and I agree that it would carve up the player-controlled land in a way which would not be game-breaking.

[Tiridia]

Just bring back "too much peace" but with a different consequence:

A realm that has not engaged in serious pvp battles in a while runs an increased risk of having a substantial rogue spawn suddenly erupting. Both the strength and the timing would need to be random to an extent.

So, if there is a lull, there is a higher risk than going to war.

[Lorgan]

Concerning too much peace... I wonder, would it be possible to replace unit morale in the old too much peace system with the crime percentage of a region's economy?
The more battles a realm fights, the more of it's violent degenerates it drafts into service, resulting in less crime in the realm's regions and more gold. Or less.

[Anaris]

Increase both as well droughts. If a rogue spawn pops up there should be a good chance you will lose the region if you don't intervene in time. That creates potential for conflict over the region both internal and external.

Increasing droughts will not do anything good. Trust me.

Also I'd like to see a plague feature. It could be designed to give courtiers and/or priests more to do. You could introduce paraphenalia called plague doctors, which you send out to find and contain early outbreaks before they become a full on plague. Rumors of plague could come up in the "listen to rumors" feature. When plague breaks out they can then use police to "quarantine region" keeping the infected from moving to other regions.

That's just introducing busywork to prevent your regions from getting hurt by something random and annoying. Not likely to happen.

[Anaris]

Just bring back "too much peace" but

Any suggestion that starts this way is almost certain to end badly, and this one is no exception. Sorry.

Something with the same goals as Too Much Peace is on the drawing board, and will hopefully be implemented at some point. However, it will not look very much like Too Much Peace at all.

[Vita`]

I think spawn rates should be dependent upon noble/region density.

It could be done on a per region (probably different standard per regiontype) basis to encourage lords to actively pursue new nobles so they have enough estates filled to reduce their region's spawn rate. Or it could be based on a continent-wide nobles per realm-owned regions. Or it could even be some player per continent density to discourage players bringing a second noble into a continent to buff it up.

Regardless of specifics, I just think that undead/monster spawn rates should somehow be related to density of nobles.

[pcw27]

Badlands could be especially suceptibel meaning you'll need a very capable lord for them.

[Shizzle]

Any TMP system mustn't enable any kind of vicious circle, or we're all !@#$ed again. I'm highly sceptic of any kind of TMP. In favour of more rogues, though.

How about rogue as an actual "faction"? Atypical in that way that it doesn't have a government or anything, but nobles could leave everything behind and live off of plundering for themselves. Free for all, basically (also vs monsters and undead)

[Geronus]

I also voted for something else. As the originator of the idea, I meant for it to have an effect similar to an Invasion. In order to stir things up every now and then, dramatically increase the spawn rates of everything until the island is swarming with them and things start to fall apart, then crank it back down. The idea would be to not let things get too settled and locked in to a particular power structure.

Maybe the strongest realms and power structures would be the ones to always survive and nothing would change, but then again maybe not. Enweil used to be the reigning power of Beluaterra, but the Invasions eventually crippled them and opened up opportunities for other realms to take their place. This is a good thing for the game. Just look at how Thalmarkin turned things around between the Fourth Invasion and the Fifth, or how Riombara came to be the dominant power in the southeast. This sort of dynamic turnover is a good thing.

[Revan]

I think spawn rates should be dependent upon noble/region density.

It could be done on a per region (probably different standard per regiontype) basis to encourage lords to actively pursue new nobles so they have enough estates filled to reduce their region's spawn rate. Or it could be based on a continent-wide nobles per realm-owned regions. Or it could even be some player per continent density to discourage players bringing a second noble into a continent to buff it up.

Regardless of specifics, I just think that undead/monster spawn rates should somehow be related to density of nobles.

That brings back awful memories of the old estate system. Never again please!

[Tiridia]

Any suggestion that starts this way is almost certain to end badly, and this one is no exception. Sorry.

I was jesting a little, of course. Now consider it on its merits without the intro.